# House and Senate pass bailout bill **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352 "2008-10-03T18:11:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/1 "2008-10-03T18:11:52Z")
Well the House and Senate finally voted to pass the abilout bill. Is this version better than previous ones? How soon will it take effect? Will history see this as a good idea or a disaster? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/2 "2008-10-03T18:15:20Z")
IMHO, this is a worse version than the previous one, but it had to be passed. I hate it like poison, but I desperately need the buyer of my house to get the mortgage she’s been OK’d for, so I talked to everyone I could to call our congressman to vote in favor of it. He didn’t, even so. First bill I’ve ever actively lobbied for, and in principle I think it’s a total piece of shit. Too many sweeteners. But I think it had to be done. There are too many people like me, who need credit to loosen up right now, or their lives will fall apart. ETA: If I hadn’t had it hitting me so personally, I would have realized how urgent it was. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/3 "2008-10-03T18:20:33Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > I hate it like poison, but I desperately need the buyer of my house to get the mortgage she’s been OK’d for, so I talked to everyone I could to call our congressman to vote in favor of it. He didn’t, even so. > > First bill I’ve ever actively lobbied for, and in principle I think it’s a total piece of shit. = So I realize it’s bad as whole, but it benefits me so who cares? I think you should have realized it was a risk you wouldn’t be able to sell your home when you bought it. But who cares about personal responsibility? Lets have the government throw OUR money at the problem to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/4 "2008-10-03T18:22:38Z")
Was the first version of this bill porked up as bad as this one is? How can McCain vote yes for this thing and then turn around and keep spewing this Maverick anti-pork nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/5 "2008-10-03T18:24:17Z")
What **Oy!** said pretty much. The President needs to sign it of course (which he will). After that it all begins pretty much immediately. Of course the devil is in the details and there are a helluva lot of details. Mainly the companies will come to the Treasury, hat-in-hand, and get down on their knees and blow Paulson to see what he gives them. Once the bad debt is off their balance sheets it is back to business as usual. And it bears repeating…this Bill is toxic shit. Looks like we’re stuck with it though. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/6 "2008-10-03T18:25:03Z")
The first bill went down, so they added pork and tax cuts, and it passed. I think that’s the hallmark of good legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/7 "2008-10-03T18:27:30Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > So I realize it’s bad as whole, but it benefits me so who cares? > > I think you should have realized it was a risk you wouldn’t be able to sell your home when you bought it. But who cares about personal responsibility? Lets have the government throw OUR money at the problem to fix it. I was disabled two years ago, having bought the house I intended to spend the rest of my life in five years ago. I have exhausted my savings, and have yet to get SDI. I need money to live on. That’s why I’m selling my house. Anything further to say about personal responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/8 "2008-10-03T18:28:02Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > The first bill went down, so they added pork and tax cuts, and it passed. > > I think that’s the hallmark of good legislation. Just goes to show that bacon makes everything better. The last bill was 700 billion and this one is over 800 billion so I’d assume there is more pork in this one than the last one. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/9 "2008-10-03T18:28:10Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > ETA: If I hadn’t had it hitting me so personally, I would have realized how urgent it was. As I told you yesterday the “urgency” was manufactured. Credit was stopped only because the companies were waiting for the bail out. Had the government told them all to fuck off things would have started rolling again as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/10 "2008-10-03T18:29:22Z")
Does anyone know more about the $150 billion in pork added so it would pass this time? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/11 "2008-10-03T18:32:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > As I told you yesterday the “urgency” was manufactured. Credit was stopped only because the companies were waiting for the bail out. Had the government told them all to fuck off things would have started rolling again as well. I’m not convinced it would have. I think Wall Street would have sat on their hands longer. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/12 "2008-10-03T18:36:15Z")
The pork was directed at some who voted it down ,to get them to change their vote. The bill does not deal with the mortgages in a strong way. There are a lot of foreclosures coming in the next 2 years. Paulson can give the money to Chinese and Saudi banks. Our money to bail out the wealthy who screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/13 "2008-10-03T18:37:21Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > Was the first version of this bill porked up as bad as this one is? How can McCain vote yes for this thing and then turn around and keep spewing this Maverick anti-pork nonsense? The same way Obama does. He didn’t put the pork in, and this bill had to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/14 "2008-10-03T18:37:54Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Does anyone know more about the $150 billion in pork added so it would pass this time? Here are some…not a BIG chunk of the tax incentives (aka pork) are directed at Renewable Energy breaks ($70 billion IIRC). > [@](#): > > **Wooden arrows** : This tax break, backed by Oregon’s two senators, would benefit an Oregon manufacturer of wooden arrows for children by $2 million over 10 years. > > **Racetracks** : Earmark would allow auto racetrack owners to depreciate their facilities over seven years, saving the industry $100 million over two years. > > **Rum** : Offers rum producers in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands a rebate on excise taxes worth $192 million over two years. > > **Wool** : Reduces tariffs for U.S. makers of wool fabric that use imported yarn, worth $148 million over five years. The measure was pushed by Reps. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y., and Melissa Bean, D-Ill. > > **Exxon Valdez** : Plaintiffs in the suit over the 1989 oil spill could spread their tax payments on punitive damages over three years, cutting their tax bill by $49 million. The measure was backed by Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska. > > **American Samoa** : Allows certain corporations to reduce their tax liability on income earned in American Samoa, at a cost of $33 million over two years. > > **Hollywood** : Extends a tax break for film and TV companies that keep their production in the United States, worth $478 million over 10 years. The provision was originally pushed by Rep. Diane Watson, D-Los Angeles. > > SOURCE: [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/03/MNR813AHDN.DTL](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/03/MNR813AHDN.DTL) ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/15 "2008-10-03T18:38:15Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Does anyone know more about the $150 billion in pork added so it would pass this time? [Here](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/house.bailout/index.html#cnnSTCText) are the most details I’ve been able to find thus far: [QUOTE=CNN] The added incentives include a mix of tax extensions, an increase in federal deposit insurance and other measures. … The bailout plan has new provisions, including an increase in the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. cap from $100,000 to $250,000. It makes $250 billion immediately available to purchase bank assets, leaving $100 billion at the president’s discretion and $350 billion subject to congressional review. The bill also includes a “mental-health parity” provision, which would require health insurance companies to cover mental illness at parity with physical illness. … Because tax bills must originate in the House, the Senate attached the rescue plan to a bill that deals with renewable energy tax incentives. This allowed the Senate to vote before the House to approve a bailout bill. [/QUOTE] [Here](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/house.bailout/index.html#cnnSTCOther2) are some of the details on the tax extensions. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/16 "2008-10-03T18:39:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The same way Obama does. He didn’t put the pork in, and this bill had to pass. Obama has been campaigning as an anti-pork Maverick? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/17 "2008-10-03T18:43:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The same way Obama does. He didn’t put the pork in, and this bill had to pass. They both voted for it but it was McCain who explicitly touted his anti-pork stance in the last debate…not Obama. So, McCain has failed on the very first chance he had to show how serious he was about this (of course he is not president to veto anything but he could have made “them famous”). > [@](#): > > **McCain** : We Republicans came to power to change government, and government changed us. And the – the worst symptom on this disease is what my friend, Tom Coburn, calls earmarking as a gateway drug, because it’s a gateway. It’s a gateway to out-of-control spending and corruption. > > \ > > As president of the United States, I want to assure you, I’ve got a pen. This one’s kind of old. I’ve got a pen, and I’m going to veto every single spending bill that comes across my desk. I will make them famous. You will know their names. > > \ > > Now, Senator Obama, you wanted to know one of the differences. a million dollars for every day that he’s been in the United States Senate. > > \ > > That kind of thing is not the way to rein in runaway spending in Washington, D.C. That’s one of the fundamental differences that Senator Obama and I have. > > SOURCE: [Transcript of first presidential debate - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/26/debate.mississippi.transcript/) ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/18 "2008-10-03T18:52:12Z")
He won’t mention a name until he’s out of the Senate himself. He’d be cutting his own throat. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/19 "2008-10-03T18:53:51Z")
> [@autz](#): > > Well the House and Senate finally voted to pass the abilout bill. > > Is this version better than previous ones? How soon will it take effect? Will history see this as a good idea or a disaster? It sets a horrendously bad precedent. It’s a reward for reckless avarice and will only encourage more. Further it does nothing to fix the problem that got us here and leaves us open for another fucking a few months down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352/20 "2008-10-03T19:05:55Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > He won’t mention a name until he’s out of the Senate himself. He’d be cutting his own throat. Fine. But we can safely say his “Maverick” notion is so much bullshit too. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-and-senate-pass-bailout-bill/466352.md?page=2)