# House Bill H.R. 875 does it hurt backyard gardens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037 "2009-03-27T21:38:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/1 "2009-03-27T21:38:34Z")
> **[Text of H.R. 875 (111th): Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009 (Introduced...](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr875/text)** > > Text of H.R. 875 (111th): Food Safety Modernization Act of … as of Feb 4, 2009 (Introduced version). H.R. 875 (111th): Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009 I have seen in a couple of places people concerned about their right to grow their own food. What does this bill really mean for organic growers growing their own food? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/2 "2009-03-27T21:57:06Z")
Title IV, sect. 401 says > [@](#): > > It is prohibited– > > (1) to manufacture, introduce, deliver for introduction, or receive in interstate commerce any food that is adulterated, misbranded, or otherwise unsafe; > > (2) to adulterate or misbrand any food in interstate commerce; And so on. IANAL, but it looks to me it only regulates farms and food establishments. Farms are not well defined, but I suspect the backyard garden does not qualify. Though there is a presumption of interstate commerce, I suspect any backyard gardener in trouble because of this act can show that there is no commerce, interstate or otherwise, involved. I’m a gardener, and I’m not worried - unless I can somehow figure out how to get someone to give me money for my excess zucchini. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/3 "2009-03-27T22:19:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > …Though there is a presumption of interstate commerce, I suspect any backyard gardener in trouble because of this act can show that there is no commerce, interstate or otherwise, involved… IANAL, but isn’t it considered “interstate commerce” even to grow something for your own personal consumption? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/4 "2009-03-27T22:20:59Z")
From the definitions: > [@](#): > > The term ‘food establishment’ means a slaughterhouse (except those regulated under the Federal Meat Inspection Act or the Poultry Products Inspection Act), factory, warehouse, or facility owned or operated by a person located in any State that processes food or a facility that holds, stores, or transports food or food ingredients. While I suppose you could argue that growing your own food makes your home/garden a “facility owned or operated by a person located in any State that processes food,” this is specifically disclaimed by the exception: “For the purposes of registration, the term ‘food establishment’ does not include a . . . nonprofit food establishment in which food is prepared for or served directly to the consumer.” Even that exception seems to imply that the definition does not apply to home gardens, but even if it did, you would be covered under the non-profit part. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/5 "2009-03-27T22:35:29Z")
Definitions, 13 (B) – Any food from a backyard garden would be processed and prepared for delivery ‘directly to the consumer’ – i.e., the family in whose backyard the garden is located. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/6 "2009-03-27T22:38:18Z")
I am shocked to learn that I am in **Polycarp** ’s ignore list. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/7 "2009-03-27T22:38:58Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IANAL, but isn’t it considered “interstate commerce” even to grow something for your own personal consumption? No. The silly case that established this was someone growing wheat for their own consumption _in violation of a quota system_. In other words, if they were growing hteir own, they were not buying wheat, which affected the open market, which included wheat in interstate commerce. A regulation that explicitly deals with food safety in processing establishments that do not prepare food for the consumer, with no question of quotas, could not depend on that case as precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/8 "2009-03-27T22:40:08Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I am shocked to learn that I am in **Polycarp** ’s ignore list. You’re not – I was typing as you posted, and we simulposted, sort of – I didn’t preview to see you had made the point while I was composing a post. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/9 "2009-03-27T22:40:50Z")
I know. I was just razzin’ ya. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/10 "2009-03-27T23:29:00Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Definitions, 13 (B) – Any food from a backyard garden would be processed and prepared for delivery ‘directly to the consumer’ – i.e., the family in whose backyard the garden is located. Stupid lookahead definition. (We hereby modify the definition we haven’t given yet.) I have a hard time considering a backyard garden a food establishment by the early definitions. In any case, 13(B) makes it clear, since it covers recreational fishing also. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/11 "2009-03-28T00:28:59Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IANAL, but isn’t it considered “interstate commerce” even to grow something for your own personal consumption? :rolleyes: Only if there’s a state border between your garden and your kitchen… ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/12 "2009-03-28T00:40:34Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IANAL, but isn’t it considered “interstate commerce” even to grow something for your own personal consumption? > [@Broomstick](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Only if there’s a state border between your garden and your kitchen… One might think so… [then again…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn) > [@](#): > > Filburn argued that since the excess wheat he produced was intended solely for home consumption it could not be regulated through the interstate Commerce Clause. The Supreme Court rejected this argument, reasoning that if Filburn had not used home-grown wheat he would have had to buy wheat on the open market. This effect on interstate commerce, the Court reasoned, may not be substantial from the actions of Filburn alone but through the cumulative actions of thousands of other farmers just like Filburn its effect would certainly become substantial. Therefore Congress could regulate wholly intrastate, non-commercial activity if such activity, viewed in the aggregate, would have a substantial effect on interstate commerce, even if the individual effects are trivial. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/13 "2009-03-28T01:00:56Z")
Cheesesteak: That’s seriously fucked up. We need a return to states rights more than we need anything. The predatory Federal government and capitalist oligarchs need to be buffered, we need a layer of protection. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/14 "2009-03-28T01:06:22Z")
I think of more concern than the interstate commerce issues are the unintended consequences that might ensue. [The fiasco that CPSIA turned out to be](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Product_Safety_Improvement_Act) ought to remind us to make sure to get things like this right the first damn time. Are the standards reasonable? Are they worked in over an appropriate time? They sure weren’t with CPSIA. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/15 "2009-03-28T01:32:15Z")
Incidentally, that CPSIA issue ought to shut up both the idiots claiming deregulation is always the answer and the morons who blame it on every problem we now face. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-h-r-875-does-it-hurt-backyard-gardens/491037/16 "2009-03-28T14:29:04Z")
This bill will affect home gardeners about as much as legislation that prohibits them from increasing their stock of plant-patented varieties by means of cuttings - an illegal act which of course no gardener ever commits. 😃