# House Bill to reduce SNAP Benefits **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741 "2013-09-26T17:46:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/21 "2013-09-27T02:41:44Z")
Funny fact: when he checked into a motel for some scarlet letter action, he would claim his name was Ignatz Horowitz. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/22 "2013-09-27T04:12:53Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > SNAP is among the least subject to fraud and waste. What’s more, it’s also regarded as among the most efficient and effective. Cite? And if true, which aid for the poor program is _most_ subject to fraud and waste / _least_ efficient and effective? Maybe we can agree to eliminate _that_ program and increase funding for SNAP. Would you join me in advocating for such an effort? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/23 "2013-09-27T06:11:26Z")
Oil industry subsidies seem like a good place to start. Of course, that is aid to people who are nowhere near to being poor, so it maybe doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/24 "2013-09-27T11:22:01Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > That being said, the justification I’ve heard on the news outlets where they have people from both sides squaring off is that the proposed GOP legislation would increase “fraud prevention” and cut out “loopholes” where people who are, for example, major lottery winners (as an example of someone with perhaps low income but huge assets) continuing to receive SNAP benefits. If anyone is saying that they’re either misinformed or lying. That particular loophole doesn’t exist. If you have more than about 2,000-3,000 assets you do not qualify for food stamps whether you have an income or not. So a major lottery winner simply doesn’t qualify, period, and if such a person was getting food stamps they’re committing fraud. If a person on SNAP does win the lottery big they are required to report that and withdraw from the program. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/25 "2013-09-27T12:21:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If a person on SNAP does win the lottery big they are required to report that and withdraw from the program. They probably are calling it SNAP fraud for a reason. I’d guess like every government program on earth there are administrative lag issues, most likely the government does not know right away that you’ve won the lottery. Sans action on your part, you’d continue to receive benefits for some time until they became aware that you had substantial assets. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/26 "2013-09-27T12:31:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oil industry subsidies seem like a good place to start. Of course, that is aid to people who are nowhere near to being poor, so it maybe doesn’t count. This has been debunked so many times to almost not be worth responding to; I’m against subsidies in general, that beings said the reason we have oil industry subsidies is because both left and right love them. The idea that it’s some evil coalition of Republicans and Exxon executives is false. Those subsidies exist because they appeal to both parties, and both parties supported them. Why? Of the roughly $4.5bn in oil subsidies in 2010, $1bn was for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve–something pretty much no one advocates we get rid of. Another $570m was the Low Income Home Energy Assitance Program which insures people in the Northeast where many homes are heated by fuel oil can keep the furnace running in winter-time, when lack of home heating can and has killed people. Another $1bn is in tax writeoffs for agricultural fuel use. All three of these popular programs account for more than half of the fuel subsidies annually and have wide bipartisan support. Liberals would never vote to end LIHEAP for example, almost no one would vote to end the SPR, and farm state legislators of both parties would never end the agricultural fuel subsidies. Much of the remainder of the fuel subsidies are common manufacturing tax credits that all manufacturers can take advantage of (and even non-manufacturing companies like software companies have been able to take advantage of them at times)–and Big Labor and President Obama love manufacturer tax credits. Railing against big oil and fuel subsidies is political theater at its worst, and shows how both sides will take advantage of complex issues by boiling them down to simplistic misrepresentations. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/27 "2013-09-27T13:36:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Cite? 95% of SNAP funding goes to benefits. 5% is anti-fraud. And yet, SNAP has an overpayment rate of only 2.2 percent (which includes not just fraud but any accidental overpayment or non-eligible payment) based on about 50,000 annual random investigations. Compare that to Medicare fee-for-service (8.5% erroneous payment rate) or Medicare Advantage Part C (11.4% erroneous payment rate). There is some misuse on the other end, using SNAP benefit to buy prepared food or toilet paper or what-have-you. But those rates are also low, in part because if the store gets caught by the 50,000 audits, they get removed from the program, which means bankruptcy for many such stores. (And, in any event, that kind of misuse shouldn’t trouble you very much. Direct cash transfers are among the most effective anti-poverty mechanisms, since people know better than the government how to spend $50 to make their life better–a principle I’m pretty sure I’ve heard out of Republican lips more than once.) Finally, there does not seem to be any evidence that SNAP benefits cause lower work participation. Most beneficiaries are children, the elderly, and the disabled. But among those who can work, the rate of work participation is \*higher \*after enrollment in the program. [http://www.offthechartsblog.org/tag/facts-on-SNAP-series/](http://www.offthechartsblog.org/tag/facts-on-SNAP-series/) [http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/05/16/facts-show-food-stamp-program-has-a-strong-record-of-efficienty](http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/05/16/facts-show-food-stamp-program-has-a-strong-record-of-efficienty) > **[SNAP America's Largest Anti-Hunger Program | Feeding America](https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-blog/why-snap)** > > Everything You Need to Know About SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)- America’s Largest Anti-Hunger Program. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And if true, which aid for the poor program is _most_ subject to fraud and waste / _least_ efficient and effective? Maybe we can agree to eliminate _that_ program and increase funding for SNAP. Would you join me in advocating for such an effort? Of the major programs, my guess would be Medicare (which is of course not exclusively for the poor). I would not join you in slashing Medicare, no. But then I’m not the one advocating slashing aid. I’m saying if you do decide to cut aid, in makes zero sense to start with food stamps. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/28 "2013-09-27T13:45:48Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > To be fair both ways, if your choice is between an increase that matches inflation, and an increase that is less than inflation, the option that is less than inflation is going to represent a cut in utility, regardless of what happens to the actual dollar amount. And if you are expecting a growth in qualified participants because - oh, say, our population is increasing and we really haven’t fixed our unemployment issue around low skill jobs - or paid them a living wage - then you have the double whammy if you fund at the same levels - inflation plus more need. (Note, I’m not in favor of most “living wage” proposals which seem to ignore economics - but if the only low skilled job you can find is part time at $7.50 an hour, and you are middle aged and raising a family that you started back before the factory in town shut down when you had a “good job for life” you might need some assistance). ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/29 "2013-09-27T14:20:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > These are our people, yes? If they are not our people, who’s people are they? They are Obama’s people, and he will be their god. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/30 "2013-09-27T14:34:49Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If anyone is saying that they’re either misinformed or lying. That particular loophole doesn’t exist. If you have more than about 2,000-3,000 assets you do not qualify for food stamps whether you have an income or not. So a major lottery winner simply doesn’t qualify, period, and if such a person was getting food stamps they’re committing fraud. Not true. In many, many cases people are exempt from asset limits. Almost all of the recipients in my state are exempt but I don’t know whether it varies by state. But of course anyone who wins millions in the lottery would have to be a complete idiot to not be earning interest on their assets, which would count as income. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/31 "2013-09-27T14:39:47Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Not true. In many, many cases people are exempt from asset limits. Almost all of the recipients in my state are exempt but I don’t know whether it varies by state. But of course anyone who wins millions in the lottery would have to be a complete idiot to not be earning interest on their assets, which would count as income. There are lots of ways to put the assets to work earning money that would not show up as income in the present. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/32 "2013-09-27T14:58:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are lots of ways to put the assets to work earning money that would not show up as income in the present. Still, I’m sure few SNAP recipients have substantial assets anyway, so no biggie. They probably spend more money verifying assets than they do just disregarding assets. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/33 "2013-09-27T15:03:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are lots of ways to put the assets to work earning money that would not show up as income in the present. However, offering proof and citation for bald-faced authoritative claims is not considered “assets”, if that’s whats holding you back. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/34 "2013-09-27T15:11:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are lots of ways to put the assets to work earning money that would not show up as income in the present. While you can do those things to walk under the “income” limit, you would have the assets counted against you. You don’t get to have $20,000 in equity in your house and get on SNAP. Or, at least, aren’t supposed to. I’m sure there are people who abuse SNAP, but I have an issue with punishing someone who has forgotten what food looks like just because some douche wants an extra $150 in food money each month. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/35 "2013-09-27T15:25:39Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > While you can do those things to walk under the “income” limit, you would have the assets counted against you. > > You don’t get to have $20,000 in equity in your house and get on SNAP. Or, at least, aren’t supposed to. Yes, you do, at least in some states. Example: > **[Massresources.org](https://www.massresources.org)** > > Home care program. Massachusetts commission for the blind Most households no longer have an asset limit for the SNAP food stamp program. The asset test has been eliminated in most cases. And even for the small number of people who do have the asset limit, if you look further in that document, the house does not count toward it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/36 "2013-09-27T16:11:20Z")
Oh, great, just great! In order to save a few million in SNAP, we force more underwater mortgaged homes out on a depressed market. Fucking brilliant! With a bit of luck, and some time, they will be broke, hungry, _and_ homeless! The banks will love that idea, nothing they like better than a brisk day of writing down assets! In the famous words of the Sundance Kid: “You just keep thinking, Butch, that’s what you’re good at!” ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/37 "2013-09-27T16:28:13Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > You don’t get to have $20,000 in equity in your house and get on SNAP. Or, at least, aren’t supposed to. I don’t think equity in your house is \*ever \*a countable asset (which is a good thing). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/38 "2013-09-27T22:54:11Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Not true. In many, many cases people are exempt from asset limits. Cite please. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/39 "2013-09-27T23:04:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, you do, at least in some states. Example: > > [Massresources.org](http://www.massresources.org/snap-financial-eligibility.html#assethouseholds) > > Most households no longer have an asset limit for the SNAP food stamp program. The asset test has been eliminated in most cases. > > And even for the small number of people who do have the asset limit, if you look further in that document, the house does not count toward it. Well that’s new information to me. I’ll have to update. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741/40 "2013-09-27T23:59:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Cite please. [Here](http://foodhelp.wa.gov/basic_food.htm): > [@](#): > > Your household can have income up to 200% of the Federal Poverty Guidelines and be eligible for Basic Food. Asset limits also don’t apply to households with total monthly income under this limit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-bill-to-reduce-snap-benefits/669741.md?page=3)