# House Judiciary Committee to have hearing on Libby commutation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 4, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516 "2007-07-04T18:28:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/1 "2007-07-04T18:28:53Z")
[Next Wednesday.](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzE1NDRjMDhjN2Q4MjYwZWVkOWI0NTY2NzEzZDIyYmQ=) I can understand the outrage, but I don’t see the point of a hearing on “The Use and Misuse of Presidential Clemency Power for Executive Branch Officials.” There are no constitutional limits on that power, so what can Congress do about it? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/2 "2007-07-04T18:30:24Z")
Look nicely outraged for election season? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/3 "2007-07-04T18:37:29Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] Look nicely outraged for election season? [/QUOTE] Nah. Too soon. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/4 "2007-07-04T18:38:50Z")
I suppose it’s too much to hope for that they’ll decide the real purpose of the commutation was obstruction of justice and protection of his own and Cheney’s asses, and decide it’s an impeachable offense. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/5 "2007-07-04T18:47:26Z")
[QUOTE=Twoflower] I suppose it’s too much to hope for that they’ll decide the real purpose of the commutation was obstruction of justice and protection of his own and Cheney’s asses, and decide it’s an impeachable offense. [/QUOTE] It’s a waste of time. There are not votes to convict on impeachment. Let’s just forget about impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/6 "2007-07-04T18:47:35Z")
This [NYT editorial](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/washington/04commute.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin) points out that, in announcing the commutation, Bush used the same arguments his own Justice Department routinely rejects. Not that that makes the commutation unlawful, of course. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/7 "2007-07-04T18:55:19Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] It’s a waste of time. There are not votes to convict on impeachment. Let’s just forget about impeachment. [/QUOTE] I agree. Lets forget impeachment, and go for _seppuku_. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/8 "2007-07-04T19:06:21Z")
I don’t know, I doubt that anyone in Congress has the mathematical aptitude to fill in those little squares. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/9 "2007-07-04T19:23:04Z")
It’s just politics - trying to keep bad news for the other side in the news as long as possible, and try to impress those who think the commutation was illegal in any realistic sense. Don’t agree with the commutation myself, but jeepers Christmas, does that Bush have a pair or what? He gains nothing by this but headaches - those that were pressuring for this support him already, and it gives the Dems months of outrage to foment. Still he went ahead and did it, and is still talking pardon once the appeals process runs out. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/10 "2007-07-04T21:00:14Z")
I wonder, though, if that politics might backfire. There is only one politician in this presidential campaign who has done anything substantial to clean up a corrupt pardon system. And he’s running as a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/11 "2007-07-04T21:07:28Z")
Well, OK, bad news:GeeDubya tried to hire Tony Soprano to kill Helen Thomas. But, if the Dems try to make too much out of it, it could backfire! ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/12 "2007-07-04T21:25:15Z")
Can it have been of any utilitarian use? (i.e., are there still damaging secrets unsaid that might have been given voice if Libby had been left to twist in the wind?) I find that a bit of a stretch to believe. So yeah, I don’t know why he did it either. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/13 "2007-07-04T21:33:52Z")
A thought that came to my mind: I wonder if he would’ve done this, at least now, had he not taken so much heat during the immigration debate? I further wonder (tho’ I admit this is stretching it even more) if he’s hoping this action will allow him to slip a bill through that accomplishes at least some of what he wanted with the McCain-Kennedy bill? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/14 "2007-07-04T21:43:37Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I wonder, though, if that politics might backfire. [/QUOTE] Doubtful. It just reinforces the narrative thats been building since Katrina that the Republican Party is the party of corruption and cronyism. Bush is a Jonah and the longer the Republicans keep supporting him, the bigger the bloodbath in 2008. My sense of justice screams for impeachment. My cold political calculus says “let him twist in the wind”. Either way, it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/15 "2007-07-04T22:32:09Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [Next Wednesday.](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzE1NDRjMDhjN2Q4MjYwZWVkOWI0NTY2NzEzZDIyYmQ=) I can understand the outrage, but I don’t see the point of a hearing on “The Use and Misuse of Presidential Clemency Power for Executive Branch Officials.” There are no constitutional limits on that power, so what can Congress do about it? [/QUOTE] Recreational outrage for a couple of weeks, so they don’t have to actually address any of the real issues facing our nation? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/16 "2007-07-04T22:55:11Z")
[QUOTE=ExTank] Recreational outrage for a couple of weeks, so they don’t have to actually address any of the real issues facing our nation? [/QUOTE] Yes, there is that. However on the issue of Iraq, the pro-war warriers control the senate. On immigration the Republicans deserted GW apparently because they heard from their voters. One advantage the executive has that only one person needs to be convinced. In congress you must get a lot of your politcal foes to go along with you if the president wants to pursue a different course from that of the congressional majority. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/17 "2007-07-04T23:44:16Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] There are no constitutional limits on that power, so what can Congress do about it? [/QUOTE] Well, they could theoretically propose an amendment to limit the constitutional authority, but I doubt they could get it to pass. Most likely this is just politics. Bush was playing to his base, these guys are playing to theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/18 "2007-07-04T23:59:28Z")
I imagine they could put a few more procedural hoops for the Prez to jump through in order to get the pardoned processed. Make him submit a bunch of extra (ideally embarassing) paperwork to the justice commitee if the recipient is a former member of the administration, or require that someone from the WH physically appear before the justice committee to explain the reasons for the pardon. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/19 "2007-07-05T01:25:09Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Well, they could theoretically propose an amendment to limit the constitutional authority, but I doubt they could get it to pass. Most likely this is just politics. Bush was playing to his base, these guys are playing to theirs. [/QUOTE] I propose we move the power to pardon away from the Chief Executive, and towards a politically independent Board of Pardons and Reprieves. Like the Federal Reserve, Board Members would serve 12 year terms. The board would be responsible for setting pardon and commutation guidelines, any board member may submit a case for consideration. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516/20 "2007-07-05T01:31:34Z")
[QUOTE=ExTank] Recreational outrage for a couple of weeks, so they don’t have to actually address any of the real issues facing our nation? [/QUOTE] :dubious: This Admin’s unprecedented arrogance and abuse of power **is the** real issue facing our nation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-judiciary-committee-to-have-hearing-on-libby-commutation/410516.md?page=2)