# House of Lords Reform Bill 2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 27, 2012, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437 "2012-06-27T08:08:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/21 "2012-07-09T18:06:27Z")
Hah! The Deputy PM just got roundly rebuked in the Commons on the first day of Second Reading, by Winston Churchill’s grandson no less. Clegg tried to quote Churchill supporting electing the Lords, and Sir Nicholas Soames stood up to point out that Churchill said that when he was quite young and over time changed his views utterly. He also started out Tory, then turned Liberal and then turned Tory. How’s about that! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/22 "2012-07-09T19:33:26Z")
> [@APB](#): > > It was actually a pledge in the Conservatives’ [election manifesto](http://media.conservatives.s3.amazonaws.com/manifesto/cpmanifesto2010_lowres.pdf) (see p. 67). So it was easy for them to include in the coalition agreement… Hmmm, p. 67… not exactly a high-priority item for them, it seems. For those who don’t want to tab through the .pdf file: _We will work to build a consensus for a mainly-elected second chamber to replace the current House of Lords, recognising that an efficient and effective second chamber should play an important role in our democracy and requires both legitimacy and public confidence._ ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/23 "2012-07-09T23:41:08Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > The Bill proposes to maintain the Parliament Act in its entirety - even though the original _purpose_ of the Parliament Act (i.e. establishing the supremacy of an elected House over an unelected one) falls away. I don’t see such an arrangement lasting, personally. I agree it seems pretty stupid. What’s the point of electing them if they’re not going to have any power? ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/24 "2012-07-10T15:32:21Z")
Rumours now abound that the Government has opted not to offer a Programme Motion on the Bill, expecting to be roundly crushed on it. The Bill now faces being talked out. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/25 "2012-07-10T21:39:13Z")
The Programme Motion was pulled to avoid a humiliation, but the Government won Second Reading with Labour support, but with 124 Noes. A substantial Tory rebellion. I guess this will simmer until the Autumn now. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/26 "2012-08-06T13:39:10Z")
Aaaaand [it’s dead.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19149212) > [@](#): > > Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg has announced that plans for reform of the House of Lords are to be abandoned. > > The proposals faced opposition from many Tory MPs and speculation had been mounting that the plans would be axed. > > Mr Clegg said opposition from Tory backbenchers and Labour meant the proposals faced a “slow death”. I’ve not doubt the issue will arise at some point again but it’s probably dead for the next decade or so. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/27 "2012-08-07T13:12:03Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Aaaaand [it’s dead.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19149212) > > I’ve not doubt the issue will arise at some point again but it’s probably dead for the next decade or so. thanks for keeping this thread updated. interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/28 "2012-08-07T13:21:05Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > thanks for keeping this thread updated. > interesting. If you have any questions about the House, Parliament, or anything related to this plan to reform the House, don’t be afraid to ask - it’s a field of interest to me 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/29 "2012-08-07T15:20:22Z")
In all seriousness the ideal House of Lords is like the Loch Ness monster. They are never going to find it and the money is in the mystery. IMO, they have a better chance in this post Downton Abbey world of getting the 1999 Act repealed. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437/30 "2012-08-07T22:54:26Z")
Indeed, although I fear that in their fruitless hunt for the ideal House of Lords they ruin the generally pretty good House that already exists and replace it with a pile of junk. I had a long, drawn out debate with a staunch pro-elector recently, and deconstructed his argument to the point where he was forced to concede election would fail to achieve everything he wanted. But when I offered a solution that achieved what he wanted, but didn’t elect the Lords, he dismissed it as ‘not true reform’. This is the kind of people we’re facing. Guh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-lords-reform-bill-2012/626437.md?page=1)