# House of Representatives Rejects Bailout Bill **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746 "2008-09-29T18:21:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/61 "2008-09-29T19:17:10Z")
Are the House Pubs seriously saying that they voted against the bill because Nancy Pelosi hurt their widdle feewings? THAT’S what they care about? Not the economic welfare of the US, but petty, ticky-tack partisan getback? What am I talking about? They impeached a President for getting a blowjob. Of course that’s all they care about. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/62 "2008-09-29T19:17:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > the Republicans look like they tried to crater the economy irresponsibly… As opposed to their success at cratering the economy responsibly? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/63 "2008-09-29T19:17:51Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > Yeah I notice more people are coming around to realizing that both parties are actually the same, just different letters next to the names. A little late for a viable third party to sweep into office this year though. ☹ That’s an oversimplification. The parties both have negative things going for them. It’s just that the republicans have \*way more \*negative things going for them. What major issues are they in lockstep on? Gay rights, abortion rights, prayer in school, ID in school, birth control, stem cells research, health care, deregulation. These would seem to be things they oppose each other on. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/64 "2008-09-29T19:18:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’ a good thing John McCain decided to fly back to Washington and stick his dick in that done deal last week or the Market might be well on its way to a recovery now. Thank God for John McCain. Don’t forget Obama. Obama flew back as well. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/65 "2008-09-29T19:19:08Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So… In your opinion, standing up for your principles is a ‘snit fit’? No, agreeing to vote for a bill and then changing your mind in a fit of pique because of Pelosi’s comments is a snit fit. Juvenile idiots. As for “standing on principle,” I think the current crisis amply demonstrates the bankruptcy of Republican economic principles. These jackasses are going down with the conservative ship, and they’re wrecking the lifeboats while they’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/66 "2008-09-29T19:19:31Z")
Pelosi is certainly a numbskull, but but it does not reflect well on Republicans who were willing to vote for this bailout bill _until_ she said mean things about them. Either it was a good bill and they should have voted for it, or it was a bad bill and they should have voted against it. It does them no credit to claim they are deciding on a $700billion bill based on _anything_ but the merits of the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/67 "2008-09-29T19:20:35Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > Yeah see we have a disconnect, because I have all these economists who say take it slow and don’t rush to judgment on passing this bill. > > Balls in your court. You misunderstand my question. I’m not asking for a list of economists who disapproved of Paulson’s proposal (my guess is that the economists listed would have differing views of what an ideal proposal looks like, setting aside the issue of whether how much the House plan changed from the Paulson plan, as noted in the caveat on the top of the linked page). I’m asking you why you think that a bill shouldn’t be passed soon. You replied earlier that you think that the situation is, in effect, being hyped. What are your specific reasons for thinking that things are better than they are being portrayed? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/68 "2008-09-29T19:21:45Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Don’t forget Obama. Obama flew back as well. You know those frequent flyer miles were going to expire! Also he was specifically invited by Pres. Bush for a meeting. McCain just thought he’d fly down like mighty mouse… forgetting how stupid someone who can’t lift their arms above their head looks while flying. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/69 "2008-09-29T19:22:29Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > No, agreeing to vote for a bill and then changing your mind in a fit of pique because of Pelosi’s comments is a snit fit. This was gone over and over and over in the last thread. The House Republicans never agreed to vote for it. When the deal was announced, a Senator(R) said that he expected they might have an agreement in the future, and the House(R) said there wasn’t any deal whatsoever. The Democrats went overboard trying to upstage McCain coming back and blew their load too early by announcing the ‘Deal’, when none actually existed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/70 "2008-09-29T19:22:36Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Don’t forget Obama. Obama flew back as well. Because the President asked him to. Nobody asked McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/71 "2008-09-29T19:22:44Z")
I think we can all agree that the blame game has been completely bipartisan. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/72 "2008-09-29T19:26:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Because the President asked him to. Nobody asked McCain. What difference does that make? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/73 "2008-09-29T19:28:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You misunderstand my question. I’m not asking for a list of economists who disapproved of Paulson’s proposal (my guess is that the economists listed would have differing views of what an ideal proposal looks like, setting aside the issue of whether how much the House plan changed from the Paulson plan, as noted in the caveat on the top of the linked page). > > I’m asking you why you think that a bill shouldn’t be passed soon. You replied earlier that you think that the situation is, in effect, being hyped. What are your specific reasons for thinking that things are better than they are being portrayed? Because if they aren’t and we have to bail things out, taxes might have to go up. And we can’t have that. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/74 "2008-09-29T19:29:21Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > What difference does that make? Because he wasn’t going to go until asked by the President. Neither Obama nor McCain added anything of value to the plan, as evidenced by today’s vote. The difference was that Obama knew that ahead of time and said so, and McCain said the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/75 "2008-09-29T19:30:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You misunderstand my question. I’m not asking for a list of economists who disapproved of Paulson’s proposal (my guess is that the economists listed would have differing views of what an ideal proposal looks like, setting aside the issue of whether how much the House plan changed from the Paulson plan, as noted in the caveat on the top of the linked page). > > I’m asking you why you think that a bill shouldn’t be passed soon. You replied earlier that you think that the situation is, in effect, being hyped. What are your specific reasons for thinking that things are better than they are being portrayed? Well our GNP/GDP has been okay, our unemployment rate has been okay. I think that bodes well for our overall economy. At least long enough to get a suitable bill to do what _needs_\* to get done. - And 2 weeks isn’t enough to know what needs to get done. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/76 "2008-09-29T19:30:30Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > What difference does that make? About 5-8 points in the polls. Seriously, the difference is that McCain tried to insert himself into a process where he wasn’t needed, had no expertise, no committee membership and no leadership role purely as a stunt to attempt to boost his poll ratings. Obama tried to stay out of the way, and only went back to Washington at the request of teh President, not for political self-interest. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/77 "2008-09-29T19:32:09Z")
> [@ArizonaTeach](#): > > :dubious: > > If everyone had voted for it, then it would have passed? Well, I’d have to check the math on that one, but I’ll take your word for it. > > But the fact is that 1/3 of the Democrats voted against it, too. And the House Republicans have been against this thing since the start, and it wasn’t a secret (except to the head-in-the-sand faction). So yes, the bill failed because a large number of Republicans didn’t vote against it. However, you don’t need a single Republican to vote for a bill for it to pass. So, the bill failed because a large number of Democrats voted against it, too. And yet, “It’s the Republicans’ fault!” I was listening to NPR on the way to lunch, and this is how they described it: After the House and Senate leadership sat down and agreed to comprimise bill, the Republican leadership released their memebers to “vote their conscience”. This basically meant they were telling their members to vote against it if they felt it would be a liablity to them in the future (meaning they could blame it on the Democrats). The Democrats felt betrayed because they had legitimately compromised and then were not going to get true bipartisan supprort. As you point out, in Democrats have a majority in the House. They do not need Republican support to pass the bill. But, why should they pass a compromise bill instead of what they really want? The only reason they compromised was to get be able to call it a bipartisan effort. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/78 "2008-09-29T19:32:15Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > Well our GNP/GDP has been okay, our unemployment rate has been okay. I think that bodes well for our overall economy. At least long enough to get a suitable bill to do what _needs_\* to get done. > > - And 2 weeks isn’t enough to know what needs to get done. Both GDP and unemployment rate are extremely lagged indicators. If there is going to be any intervention, it must be done _before_ these indicators reflect the impact of this financial crisis. To wait until afterwards would drastically increase the transaction cost. It is much cheaper not to fire someone at all than to lay him off and then have to rehire for the same position in several months. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/79 "2008-09-29T19:33:33Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > This was gone over and over and over in the last thread. The House Republicans never agreed to vote for it. When the deal was announced, a Senator(R) said that he expected they might have an agreement in the future, and the House(R) said there wasn’t any deal whatsoever. > > The Democrats went overboard trying to upstage McCain coming back and blew their load too early by announcing the ‘Deal’, when none actually existed. I’m not talking about the “deal” that was announced last week. I’m talking about the compromise over the weekend which brought this bill to the floor today with the expectation of passage. It was in all the papers. Face it: The Republicans behaved like petulant children today, at the nation’s expense. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/80 "2008-09-29T19:33:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Are the House Pubs seriously saying that they voted against the bill because Nancy Pelosi hurt their widdle feewings? THAT’S what they care about? Not the economic welfare of the US, but petty, ticky-tack partisan getback? You see, Pelosi made them do it. Just like Barney Frank the member of a minority that couldn’t even get a room to hold a hearing in when the Republicans didn’t want one, somehow blocked regulation of Fannie and Freddie. Don’t you realize that Republicans were for regulation for the past 8 years and the Dems against it? Please put all evidence to the contrary into the memory hole. This is just like the California budget crisis, where Republicans refused any compromise, even when offered by the leader of their own party. BTW, when the deal was finally done, they voted for the budget with the new funding, but refused to vote for the funding itself. Will these people accept any responsibility for the total failure of their economic policy? No fucking way. At least we can console ourselves that markets in free fall don’t help the incumbent party very much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746.md?page=5)