# House of Representatives Rejects Bailout Bill **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746 "2008-09-29T18:21:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/121 "2008-09-29T20:33:29Z")
AYES Democratic 140 Republican 65 NOES Democrat 95 Republican 133 Let me see if i understand this, the Republicans (most of whom voted AGAINST the bill) are blaming the Democrats (most of whom voted FOR the bill) for the bill’s failure?. I am the only one who think they are out of their fucking mind? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/122 "2008-09-29T20:36:18Z")
Anyone see the analysis over on [FiveThirtyEight](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/swing-district-congressmen-doomed.html)? In brief, support for the bailout was almost exactly 50% among congressmen with secure reelection prospects, almost 90% among congressmen not running for reelection, and just barely over 20% among congressmen whose reelection is not a sure bet. Interestingly, almost all of the congressmen not running for reelection are Republicans. Re: the second Great Depression, note that it’s widely agreed that one of the major causes of the first depression was the gold standard ([cite](http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/Politics/whynotthegoldstandard.html)). So that’s one more thing we have going for us over those poor bastards, and one more reason why we’re insulated from another disaster. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/123 "2008-09-29T20:39:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What am I talking about? They impeached a President for getting a blowjob. Of course that’s all they care about. I can’t believe you brought this shit up. But since you did, allow me to correct your usual mistake. He was impeached for lying. You really should know this by now. But if you make the mistake again I’ll be glad to correct you again. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/124 "2008-09-29T20:43:32Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > 7% of the DJIA is not even top 5 of % drops. Oct 1987 was 22% single day drop. The Dow is down 15% since May. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/125 "2008-09-29T20:48:17Z")
Here is the text of Rep Petosi’s [comments](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/09/rep_pelosis_remarks_on_floor_a.php). Other than the almost obligatory shot at Bush economic policy, I don’t see anything especially offensive or unusually partisan about her comments. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/126 "2008-09-29T20:50:38Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > The Dow is down 15% since May. Well it didn’t help that the DJIA added a freaking bank to the average in the midst of a banking crisis did it? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/127 "2008-09-29T20:51:01Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As Chairman of the Fed, Alan Greenspan also warned Congress of the fire they were playing with by continuing to expand the availability of shaky mortgages. He said this AS HE WAS STEPPING DOWN as chairman of the fed, and after 6 years of praising subprime mortgages, and telling us all they were safe and good. More than any single human anywhere, HE was responsible for the subprime mortgage fiasco. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/128 "2008-09-29T20:51:04Z")
Well, the only sane thing to do now is suspend the vice-presidential debates until the crisis is fixed. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/129 "2008-09-29T20:51:16Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > How the hell is that NOT the republicans fault, jesus christ. I’m trying to figure out why people are blaming the Republicans while refusing to acknowledge the failures of the Democrats here. Like I’ve said, if the Democrats wanted to pass this, they could have done so without a single Republican vote. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/130 "2008-09-29T20:51:46Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Anyone see the analysis over on [FiveThirtyEight](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/swing-district-congressmen-doomed.html)? In brief, support for the bailout was almost exactly 50% among congressmen with secure reelection prospects, almost 90% among congressmen not running for reelection, and just barely over 20% among congressmen whose reelection is not a sure bet. Interestingly, almost all of the congressmen not running for reelection are Republicans. > > Re: the second Great Depression, note that it’s widely agreed that one of the major causes of the first depression was the gold standard ([cite](http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/Politics/whynotthegoldstandard.html)). So that’s one more thing we have going for us over those poor bastards, and one more reason why we’re insulated from another disaster. The above is exactly what I was saying without even looking too closely at the data. Since which congresspeople were not seeking reelection and which are vunlerable is well know, I now find it even harder to believe that this bill was even supposed to pass at all. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/131 "2008-09-29T20:54:32Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Lots of disasters could happen, but my entire point is that they WON’T re-fight the last war. The Depression was the catastrophe it was because the government did things they would never do today, such as the Smoot-Hawley Tariff; I’m sorry to keep picking on a Ferris Bueller joke, but it was arguably the worst peice of legislation ever passed by a democratically elected legislature. > > Obviously, something ELSE horrible could happen, but it’s not going to be what happened in 1929. So at least _some_ things that we know to be disasters will not take place. That was my point. That we won’t make the same mistakes does not mean that we won’t wander into a depression through some other path. In 20 years economists will be saying what the hell could we be thinking. Refighting the last war, in my understanding, means preparing for the conditions last time at the expense of flexibility for what is going to happen this time, which will be different. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/132 "2008-09-29T20:56:51Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Anyone see the analysis over on [FiveThirtyEight](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/swing-district-congressmen-doomed.html)? In brief, support for the bailout was almost exactly 50% among congressmen with secure reelection prospects, almost 90% among congressmen not running for reelection, and just barely over 20% among congressmen whose reelection is not a sure bet. Interestingly, almost all of the congressmen not running for reelection are Republicans. They might have thought that was smart politics, but with the markets crashing, they are going to have to do something (likely just about the same thing they voted against today), and explain why they voted against it before they were for it. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/133 "2008-09-29T20:57:28Z")
> [@ArizonaTeach](#): > > I’m trying to figure out why people are blaming the Republicans while refusing to acknowledge the failures of the Democrats here. > > Like I’ve said, if the Democrats wanted to pass this, they could have done so without a single Republican vote. This non-logic is kind of insulting. Republican leadership claims to have wanted to pass it, too. Should the fact that Republican leadership failed mean that the Democrats’ bar gets raised? Pelosi delivered enough of her caucus. That was, in all probability, her job. Blaming her for not doing more to compensate for Boehner’s failure to rally enough people to back their president is just ex post illogic. Arguing otherwise is moving the goalposts. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/134 "2008-09-29T20:57:33Z")
> [@Spavined\_Gelding](#): > > Here is the text of Rep Petosi’s [comments](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/09/rep_pelosis_remarks_on_floor_a.php). Other than the almost obligatory shot at Bush economic policy, I don’t see anything especially offensive or unusually partisan about her comments. I must say, I agree. What was the big deal? **ArizonaTeach** , this is an unpopular bill with the electorate. Why should the Democrats single-handedly have to pass it so that the Republicans can publicly wash their hands of it while still reaping its benefits? Almost two-thirds of Democrats were on board. Less than one third of Republicans were on board. It was requested by a Republican administration, after an extended period of Republican control of government. How can you not hold the Republicans more responsible for the failure of this bill to pass than the Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/135 "2008-09-29T20:57:46Z")
All the pissy reporters on cable are cracking me up. I get the idea that a credit crunch is bad because businesses operate with lines of credit. And I understand that bank failures are dangerous for the economy. But if I may speak for the Clem Kadiddlehoppers in our country, what’s got me pissed off about this $700 billion situation is I see the same people who’ve been speculating on gas prices and costing ME money out of my pocket; the same banks who raise fees and charge exorbitant interest rates; the same wealthy executives who’ve expanded the difference between CEO and employee pay; and the same slick Wall Street talkers in expensive suits who make MILLIONS of dollars in bonuses each year who are now saying “we don’t want to start making loans until we get guarantees/coverage of our losses/whatever it is backed by the U.S. gov”. To which I say, fuck you. And it’s being sold to us by a President who’s spending our money at breakneck speed. To which I say, fuck you and the vice president you rode in on. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/136 "2008-09-29T20:58:11Z")
I’ll participate more later, right now the markets not the only thing crashing the boards seem to be as well for me. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/137 "2008-09-29T20:59:14Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > On the other hand, is it too early to start heating up a nice big pot of hobo stew? Hey! Leave me out of this! ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/138 "2008-09-29T21:00:29Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Well, the only sane thing to do now is suspend the vice-presidential debates until the crisis is fixed. You owe me a beer. And a new keyboard. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/139 "2008-09-29T21:01:23Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > All the pissy reporters on cable are cracking me up. > > I get the idea that a credit crunch is bad because businesses operate with lines of credit. > > And I understand that bank failures are dangerous for the economy. > > But if I may speak for the Clem Kadiddlehoppers in our country, what’s got me pissed off about this $700 billion situation is I see the same people who’ve been speculating on gas prices and costing ME money out of my pocket; > the same banks who raise fees and charge exorbitant interest rates; > the same wealthy executives who’ve expanded the difference between CEO and employee pay; > and the same slick Wall Street talkers in expensive suits who make MILLIONS of dollars in bonuses each year who are now saying “we don’t want to start making loans until we get guarantees/coverage of our losses/whatever it is backed by the U.S. gov”. > > To which I say, fuck you. > > And it’s being sold to us by a President who’s spending our money at breakneck speed. > > To which I say, fuck you and the vice president you rode in on. The problem being, you’ll get fucked long before they will. They’ll never have to struggle to put their kids through college. They’ll never have to wait another few years to buy a new car. You may. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/140 "2008-09-29T21:01:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The American people, at large, haven’t had time to absorb this yet. Right now, they are justifiably hopping mad at the very idea of bailing out the fat cats. They need time to get their heads around the idea that this sucks, any way you slice it, but if nothing is done, this will suck like a black hole on steroids. > > Until, Goddess Willing, we can build a better economic system, we absolutely _must_ have a credit system. I don’t like our system, and have spent the best part of my adult life railing against it. But its all we got, goddammit! Shit, how I _hate_ spending good money to put an unjust system on life support! I _hate_ bailing out people who don’t deserve it! > > But as much as I admire the artistic acheivement of _The Grapes of Wrath_, I don’t want to live it. > > Were it up to me, I’d duck behind a tree to puke my guts out, and vote for it! I’ll suffer a bit if it means those assholes have to suffer a LOT. So, no, we don’t have to save the failing banks. Fuck them. I’m ready to ride this thing all the way down, and maybe at the end of the day when these assholes have to suffer REAL consequences for lying, stealing, and cheating the system, we’ll have learned something. Otherwise, what good does bailing out the mortgage industry do? It keeps the same people in power with the same morals and the same evil streak as before, but now armed with the knowledge that there are no consequences for anything they do, ever. If you’re so eager to spend 700 billion saving a bunch of people in financial trouble, I have a better idea. The government should pay every homeowner who was tricked by predatory lenders and our economic leadership (most importantly Alan Greenspan) the difference between what their introductory interest rate was and their current interest rate. Every dollar that the government spends this way should equal one second of community service time for all of the board members involved with the banks receiving it. The bank can then either keep these people on their board and pay a 75% tax on the money the government pays them in this way, or fire them and have the money taxed at a regular rate. Everyone wins. It costs the government about the same as this goofy bailout package. People don’t lose their homes. The bank shareholders can either decide to keep the villains in charge and have their stocks decline in value, or they can punish the villains and have their stock values increase. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746.md?page=8)