# House of Representatives Rejects Bailout Bill **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746 "2008-09-29T18:21:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/161 "2008-09-29T21:38:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Don’t think so, when you consider all the (also underhanded) work Bush did to make Republicans and Democrats pass those Iraq, FISA, and other resolutions then the blame for the poor piss job made to reign on this early (with a Republican controlled house and Senate) has to be put mostly on Republican hands. > “The buck stops here!” - Harry S. Truman. This is why partisanship is horrible, rather than take some responsibility it’s so much easier to blame the other party. If we learn to accept our failures, we can correct them. ---
**Author:** ![mazinger\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mazinger\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazinger_z)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/162 "2008-09-29T21:39:20Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Enh, I’m not impressed. That cite shows Bush showing support for some programs that help minorities and poor people to own homes. There’s nothing sinister about that. > > On the other hand, various other cites show Bush specifically targeting sub-prime lending practices. Shayna’s cite doesn’t prove that Bush favored adjustable mortgage rates or anything like that. No matter how we try to make it stick, I think Bush is blameless on this one. Bush was simply the last person in office to do something about it, though I think he does share an unreasonable amount of the blame. Regardless, I don’t think any President could have pushed that agenda through. It was simply making too much money. Look at the accounting scandals from Raines alone. Look at how much money they were contributing to both parties. Also, how can any politician vote against it? Describing the problem and market distortions of FNM is not a good sound bite and will be lost on most of the voters as it is here on this board. Any politician regulating FNM will have his opponent shout: “He wants to deny minorities and poor people the hope of the American Dream™?” ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/163 "2008-09-29T21:40:07Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > Both parties share responsibility. Your party isn’t innocent, neither is the other party. Blaming one or the other for the current problems is pure and simply bias. Trying to decide which party to blame in this situation is akin to sitting in the middle of a forest that’s burning down all around you and arguing about who accidentally put their cigarette out on a brush-pile. It’s going to really hurt some people, but there aren’t any really big political figures you can finger on this one. This stuff was bigger than politics. A few people knew it was bad before it started and kept clear of it, a larger portion knew this could happen but were gambling that it wouldn’t, or that when the housing bubble burst it wouldn’t cause such a catastrophic crisis. It all goes back to overvaluing homes in America. Probably some of the key people you could blame for this would be Richard Syron to start with, he was informed about the impending crisis about four years ago and did absolutely nothing to stop it, and he was in a key position that could have effected change at a time when it may have meant something. Once a bubble forms, it’s most definitely going to burst–and this housing bubble was quite probably the largest bubble in the history of the United States and most likely the world. But things could have been done at various stages to have lessened the impact. Barney Frank takes some of the blame, as he most certainly resisted any attempts to reign in the Macs, and up until it was obvious to pretty much everyone else he continued to argue that there was no impending crisis. Christopher Cox gets a nice share of the blame for some of the most lax regulatory behavior we’ve seen out of the SEC in its history. But most of the big “name” politicians, Bush, for example–honestly had nothing to do with this, as much as that may upset partisans who are always looking for someone on which to hang blame. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/164 "2008-09-29T21:40:29Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > This non-logic is kind of insulting. Republican leadership claims to have wanted to pass it, too. Should the fact that Republican leadership failed mean that the Democrats’ bar gets raised? Pelosi delivered enough of her caucus. That was, in all probability, her job. Blaming her for not doing more to compensate for Boehner’s failure to rally enough people to back their president is just ex post illogic. Arguing otherwise is moving the goalposts. I never said, not once, that the Republicans shouldn’t share some of the blame for not passing this bill (although I’m not sure “blame” is the right word for the bill not passing). I just don’t understand how the Democrats’ hands are clean here. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/165 "2008-09-29T21:41:48Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Nonsense. You needn’t look any further than the White House [website](http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/achievement/chap7.html) to see him tout some of the initiatives that have led to this crisis. Here’s one interesting part: > > This last initiative happened in Feb 2004. From [here.](http://seekingalpha.com/article/67781-every-day-feels-like-the-crash-of-87-part-i) > > So it was Bush, among others, that advocated the practices that led to these mortgages being issued. Not to mention that blaming Fannie and Freddie for buying mortgage-backed securities that have blown up seems to be somewhat misguided considering they didn’t lend the money to under-qualified people in the first place. At best, they are only partially responsible. > > His budgets have been astronomical. These wars will cost trillions of dollars. How can you argue he has shown any sort of fiscal discipline in light of the dramatic increase in spending and the deficit? First time home buyers aren’t the ones defaulting, for the most part. These are, as I understand it, higher end people buying (and refinancing) higher end properties and then the bottoms dropping out both of the property and the income. A lot of people buying properties to flip them, and finding the value going down instead of up, and so forth. I’m not one to defend Bush - as far as I’m concerned, he’s the worst president I’ve lived through, and I was born during Eisenhower. But the policies addressed in this post are not things that caused this crisis, except for the astronomical budgets, the wars, and the lack of fiscal discipline, which may or may not have had impact, but were certainly indirect. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/166 "2008-09-29T21:42:20Z")
> [@mazinger\_z](#): > > Bush was simply the last person in office to do something about it, though I think he does share an unreasonable amount of the blame. Regardless, I don’t think any President could have pushed that agenda through. It was simply making too much money. Look at the accounting scandals from Raines alone. Look at how much money they were contributing to both parties. Also, how can any politician vote against it? Describing the problem and market distortions of FNM is not a good sound bite and will be lost on most of the voters as it is here on this board. Any politician regulating FNM will have his opponent shout: “He wants to deny minorities and poor people the hope of the American Dream™?” A lot of CEOs faced this same problem. They either invested heavily in the housing bubble and achieved equal or better return than their competitors who were doing the same, or they didn’t and they risked shareholders being angry that they weren’t achieving a rate of return as high as their competitors. There are a select few CEOs of major U.S. banks (look to Bank of America, and also BB&T although it is a much smaller bank) that actually didn’t engage in the ludicrous over-leveraging and generally stupid financial decisions that many of their competitors did–for this reason these banks are still around and BofA is now the largest bank in America in virtually all types of banking. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/167 "2008-09-29T21:42:34Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > Are all economists who disagree with this bill, trying to cause a depression? I don’t know that they’re malevolent. They could just be obtusely doctrinaire. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/168 "2008-09-29T21:43:24Z")
> [@ArizonaTeach](#): > > I never said, not once, that the Republicans shouldn’t share some of the blame for not passing this bill (although I’m not sure “blame” is the right word for the bill not passing). I just don’t understand how the Democrats’ hands are clean here. Not clean. Just a hell of a lot clean_er_. By a factor of about 2 to 1, it looks to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/169 "2008-09-29T21:44:13Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Enh, I’m not impressed. That cite shows Bush showing support for some programs that help minorities and poor people to own homes. There’s nothing sinister about that. > > On the other hand, various other cites show Bush specifically targeting sub-prime lending practices. Shayna’s cite doesn’t prove that Bush favored adjustable mortgage rates or anything like that. No matter how we try to make it stick, I think Bush is blameless on this one. Shayna’s quote is also from 2002. It’s clear from looking at the White House’s rhetoric over the years that there was growing alarm over the conditions at Fannie/Freddie, and with subprime mortgages. There’s really no question about it. One statement to a group of supporters from early in his administration does not refute the dozens of statements of increasingly alarmist tone that have been emanating from the administration since. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/170 "2008-09-29T21:44:43Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > This is why partisanship is horrible, rather than take some responsibility it’s so much easier to blame the other party. If we learn to accept our failures, we can correct them. Sure, unfortunately just 2% more of Americans choose to not correct anything and decided to vote for the current “leader” again. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/171 "2008-09-29T21:46:21Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > Not clean. Just a hell of a lot clean_er_. By a factor of about 2 to 1, it looks to me. Ok, that’s not what’s being said here. Interesting thought - if it turns out (after more examination) that the bill was a bad idea…are the Republicans then heroes? (My opinion: no). ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/172 "2008-09-29T21:48:33Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > Not clean. Just a hell of a lot clean_er_. By a factor of about 2 to 1, it looks to me. But that’s saying the bill was a “good thing” if the market gets stabilized, the credit market clears up and no bailout bill happens, what will you all do? I think the democrats and the republicans who votes NO did what the people they represent wanted. Anything else and it would be the same ol’ same ol’ doing what they want to do. They’re elected to represent us, and half of us don’t want this bailout. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/173 "2008-09-29T21:49:57Z")
Let me post again a list of statements the Bush Administration has made to Congress over the years, stressing the need for reform. From [here](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/09/20080919-15.html): > [@](#): > > 2001 > > April: The Administration’s FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is “a potential problem,” because “financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity.” > > 2002 > > May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02) > > 2003 > > January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years. > > February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that “although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations,” “the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them.” As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. (“Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO,” OFHEO Report, 2/4/03) > > September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO’s review found earnings manipulations. > > September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact “legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises” and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements. > > October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error. > > November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any “legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk.” To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have “broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards” and “receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE.” (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03) > > 2004 > > February: The President’s FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: “The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator.” (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83) > > February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to “not take [the financial market’s] strength for granted.” Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by “ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator.” (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, “Keeping Fannie And Freddie’s House In Order,” Financial Times, 2/24/04) > > June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying “We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System.” (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04) > > 2005 > > April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying “Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system.” (Secretary John W. Snow, “Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee,” 4/13/05) > > 2007 > > July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse. > > August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying “first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options.” (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07) > > September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August – up 115 percent from the year before. > > September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before. > > December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying “These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I’ve called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon.” (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07) > > 2008 > > January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide. > > January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value. > > February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says “A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully.” (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08) > > March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase. > > March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and “move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages.” (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08) > > April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and “modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes.” (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08) > > May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further. > > ``` > * > > "Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08) > * > > "[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08) > * > > "Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08) > > ``` > > June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying “we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.” (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08) > > July: Congress heeds the President’s call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/174 "2008-09-29T21:50:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Sure, unfortunately just 2% more of Americans choose to not correct anything and decided to vote for the current “leader” again. Didn’t do much change in 2006 did it? Except changed the R to D as the majority to screw over the people. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/175 "2008-09-29T21:50:27Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > Shayna if I wasn’t married I’d ask to buy you a drink. 🙂 If I wasn’t married, I’d take you up on that! 🙂 > [@Oy](#): > > **Shayna** , the girl with kaleidoscope cites. 😃 That’s cute! Thanks! > [@Mosier](#): > > Enh, I’m not impressed. That cite shows Bush showing support for some programs that help minorities and poor people to own homes. There’s nothing sinister about that. Never said or implied there was anything sinister about that. It was simply meant to refute **Sam’s** contention that Republicans have been fighting this for a long, long time, over the objections of those greedy ol’ Democrats. Clearly I’ve shown that that’s not exactly true. > [@Mosier](#): > > On the other hand, various other cites show Bush specifically targeting sub-prime lending practices. Shayna’s cite doesn’t prove that Bush favored adjustable mortgage rates or anything like that. No matter how we try to make it stick, I think Bush is blameless on this one. I don’t see where Democrats “favored adjustable mortgage rates” either. I certainly disagree that Bush is blameless in any of this. It’s gone down primarily on his watch over the past 7 years! > [@RyJae](#): > > Both parties share responsibility. Your party isn’t innocent, neither is the other party. Blaming one or the other for the current problems is pure and simply bias. I also didn’t say Democrats were blameless. If you have a problem with finger pointing at one and only one party, realign your hand in the direction of **Sam Stone** , who seems to think this falls squarely in the lap of Democrats. Nevermind Gramm-Leach-Bliley, repealing the last of Glass-Steagall through the Republican Congress, etc., etc., etc. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/176 "2008-09-29T21:50:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Shayna’s quote is also from 2002. It’s clear from looking at the White House’s rhetoric over the years that there was growing alarm over the conditions at Fannie/Freddie, and with subprime mortgages. > > There’s really no question about it. One statement to a group of supporters from early in his administration does not refute the dozens of statements of increasingly alarmist tone that have been emanating from the administration since. Oh, really? Only by doing half of the effort done for the Iraq and FISA causes would have made a difference. Bush and the Republicans choose to do just butt covering efforts. Democrats do deserve blame but it is silly to ignore who had the power to make a difference, I have to conclude that Bush and other Republican leaders did not have much of a will on reigning on this. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/177 "2008-09-29T21:52:19Z")
> [@ArizonaTeach](#): > > Ok, that’s not what’s being said here. > > Interesting thought - if it turns out (after more examination) that the bill was a bad idea…are the Republicans then heroes? (My opinion: no). I grew up believing that Republicans and the NY Yankees are in constant contention for the title of “Antichrist,” so by me, no. 😃 At best, they’ll get a grudging “They were right this time,” which I _am_ capable of giving. I have in fact voted for a Republican in my life. Once. I have occasionally praised contemporary Republicans. I have certainly respected Republicans up to and including the time of Teddy Rooseveldt. But let’s face it. We’ll never know. Whatever route we go, we’ll never know what would have happened had we gone another way. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/178 "2008-09-29T21:53:58Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > If I wasn’t married, I’d take you up on that! 🙂 That’s cute! Thanks! Never said or implied there was anything sinister about that. It was simply meant to refute **Sam’s** contention that Republicans have been fighting this for a long, long time. Clearly I’ve shown that that’s not exactly true. I don’t see where Democrats “favored adjustable mortgage rates” either. I certainly disagree that Bush is blameless in any of this. It’s gone down primarily on his watch over the past 7 years! I also didn’t say Democrats were blameless. If you have a problem with finger pointing at one and only one party, realign your hand in the direction of **Sam Stone** , who seems to think this falls squarely in the lap of Democrats. Nevermind Gramm-Leach-Bliley, repealing the last of Glass-Steagall through the Republican Congress, etc., etc., etc. I do understand firing back, on the same token I guess I would like more people to say “THEY ALL FUCKED UP” it would make for a healing moment. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/179 "2008-09-29T21:55:28Z")
I just listened to Tom Tancredo on the radio. He voted for the bill, and he said that they had the votes last night, but he felt many Republicans voted against the bill hoping that it would pass and they could play it both ways. He definitely put the blame on Republicans, much to the chagrin of the right-wing host interviewing him. He did mention Pelosi’s speech (he said he wanted to throttle her) but said that anyone who changed their vote because of it was an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746/180 "2008-09-29T21:55:34Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > 7% of the DJIA is not even top 5 of % drops. Oct 1987 was 22% single day drop. And that pisses me off about the press. Everyone is talking about the biggest POINT drop. Not percentages. My Mom went through that in '87 and toughed throurgh it, hung in there and did OK. I’ll ‘tough’ it out too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-representatives-rejects-bailout-bill/465746.md?page=10)