# House of the Dragon 2.02 "Rhaenyra The Cruel" 6/23/24 OPEN SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [June 24, 2024, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252 "2024-06-24T03:59:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/1 "2024-06-24T03:59:15Z")
Everything shown on screen is valid for discussion without spoiler boxes. If you’re going to reveal future events based on any other material please spoiler box it. [Season 2 Episode 1: A Son for a Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-01-son-for-a-son-6-16-24-open-spoilers) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/2 "2024-06-24T19:26:05Z")
Poor Helaena. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/3 "2024-06-25T04:04:57Z")
So was anyone else expecting the boy’s body to fall off the carriage when it was being jostled over the cobblestones and then got stuck in the rut? The sick girl and father in King’s Landing, are those characters we have seen before or were they just randoms to depict the “everyman” and how they are being fucked over by the King? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/4 "2024-06-25T07:37:39Z")
Royals not giving a shit about the smallfolk isn’t new and clearly evident here, but also royals not caring about each other. Nobody really giving a shit about Helaena, and the heir Jaehaerys is “the child” constantly instead of being given any persona regard. > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > The sick girl and father in King’s Landing, are those characters we have seen before or were they just randoms to depict the “everyman” and how they are being fucked over by the King? Answer: It’s not explicitly stated because only his first name has been given so far, but because of the name he’s going to be important as far as plot goes. His kid or wife aren’t important I don’t think. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/5 "2024-06-25T08:11:52Z")
Man, Sir Criston Cole is an asshole. A lot of his previous evil actions you could chalk up to him being kind of naive, poor at thinking things through, impulsive, and overly loyal to his charges, but this was just self servingly evil. He tried to pin the guilt on a guy who did everything right, who was doing his job, with no justification and appealing to his overly rigid sense of honor and hierarchy. Just to deflect blame from himself and assuage his own guilt. That said, it was actually a pretty clever plan … if whichever Ser Arryk/Erryk is willing to do a suicide mission. I assume Mysaria got to whichever the other Arryk/Erryk is and tipped him off just in time, which might ingratiate her to Rhaenyrs if the guy who could vouch for her wasn’t dead. The one who was loyal to Rhanerya was the one who won the fight - but he was so overcome with guilt that he ended it anyway. Brutal. And then Cole spontaneously gets appointed hand by Aegon the Dipshit just as an FU to his grandpa. He’s like some evil bizarro Forest Gump that keeps stumbling into important historical situations and fucking them up. It was nice to see the hand go off on his grandson and tell him that his father didn’t want him to be king. Otto Hightower is obviously self-serving, but it’s clear that he does actually give a shit about the realm and avoiding unnecessary bloodshed and damage. Probably a better hand than most. Without his influence, things are going to fall apart quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/6 "2024-06-25T08:46:50Z")
Cole has a lot to do every day what with being the Lord Commander, Hand, and Alicent’s fuck buddy. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/7 "2024-06-25T11:07:13Z")
> Cole has a lot to do every day what with being the Lord Commander, Hand, and Alicent’s fuck buddy. You know what they say - If you want to get something done, give it to a busy person… ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/8 "2024-06-25T11:08:30Z")
> So was anyone else expecting the boy’s body to fall off the carriage when it was being jostled over the cobblestones and then got stuck in the rut? I was expecting the stiches to rip and his head to roll off. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/9 "2024-06-25T13:49:29Z")
Rhys Ifans knocked it out of the park this episode, not just on the scene with Aegon and Cole but also with Alicent. The eyerolls, the “and WHAT exactly has ser Criston Cole done?”, the perfect laugh when Aegon claims Viserys named him king. So so good, I hope he is not gone for good. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/10 "2024-06-25T21:34:36Z")
Alicent is a terrible mother. Helaena is traumatized, Aegon is weeping alone, Aemond is finding comfort with a motherly whore while Alicent thinks _she_ is being punished but then continues with her “sin”. And Criston Cole continues to fail upward. The fight to the death between the twins is the civil war writ small. I hadn’t caught on that they were in the story for that reason. Good job. The scenes between Rhaenyra and Daemon and between Aegon and Otto were fabulous. Such great acting there. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/11 "2024-06-25T21:42:06Z")
So I had assumed that the kingsguard who won the fight was the one who was loyal to Rhaenyra. He bows to her and calls her “your grace” before killing himself, strongly indicating he’s the one who chose her. But from some discussion on reddit, people say that if you track the fight it’s actually the Kingsguard that was sent by Criston Cole/Sworn to Aegon who won the fight. I’m not sure if that’s a production error or narratively deliberate. If it really is Aegon’s kingsguard that won the fight, and he kills himself rather than trying to kill her, his acknowledgment of her as “your grace” might indicate that he realized in being forced to kill his brother that Aegon was unworthy and she was the true queen. And in a way, he joins the side with his brother as his last act. It’s actually a more interesting story one that Cole sent is the one who won. But … if that’s the point they wanted to make, it would certainly be extremely subtle unless it’s addressed later. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/12 "2024-06-26T00:52:22Z")
I don’t know how you could possibly “track” the fight, it was deliberately filmed in a way that made it impossible to tell who was who. I don’t think even Rhaenyra knew which one was which after a little while. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/13 "2024-06-26T01:19:20Z")
Every episode summary I’ve seen has Ser Erryk Cargyll (Rhaenyra’s Queensguard member) winning that fight and then killing himself out of guilt and grief. Between that scene and the Shogun miniseries I’ve seen more than enough seppuku deaths to last me for years. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/14 "2024-06-26T01:38:18Z")
Yeah, probably based more on his words than on following the fight though. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/15 "2024-06-26T01:56:47Z")
Interestingly, the Cargylls are played by identical twins, which was obviously needed to film their fight. But a departure from the Lannister identical twins in S1, who were both played by the same actor. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/16 "2024-06-26T03:08:22Z")
They should’ve spent more time building up the Erryk/Arryk relationship. I’m kind of shocked they didn’t. Brother against brother, not only is that ripe for drama but the symbolism obviously gives a lot of meat to relate to the overall plot of the show. They could’ve showed the struggles of the brother who wanted to support Rhaenyra, the argument they had before one left - tons of potential for drama there. And it would’ve made the duel more impactful because we’d be more invested in the characters. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/17 "2024-06-26T10:59:25Z")
Riley McAtee of _The Ringer_ said that it was Arryk (the wannabe assassin) who won the fight (based on following the initial leg wound throughout the action) while acknowledging that showrunner Ryan Condal said after the episode that it was good twin Erryk. I’m comfortable letting the question go. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/18 "2024-06-26T17:42:13Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But … if that’s the point they wanted to make, it would certainly be extremely subtle unless it’s addressed later. You know it will be addressed later if you ever see either character on the “Previously on…” segment. > [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > I’m comfortable letting the question go. You are, but I guarantee there’s already a 90 minute Youtube video heh ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/19 "2024-06-26T19:55:59Z")
> [@mozchron](#): > > I was expecting the stiches to rip and his head to roll off. I, too, thought that this was being set up. And because of several close-ups of his grieving mother, I thought they were setting up for her to leap into the dragonfire that would burn up the child’s body. (Instead, they didn’t even show the immolation scene.) > [@SenorBeef](#): > > if whichever Ser Arryk/Erryk is willing to do a suicide mission. I assume Mysaria got to whichever the other Arryk/Erryk is and tipped him off just in time, which might ingratiate her to Rhaenyrs if the guy who could vouch for her wasn’t dead. It does seem like a missed opportunity to bring Mysaria back into the plot in an interesting way. But with both twins dead, it’s tough to see how she can get any credit for having, essentially, saved Rhaenyra’s life. Incidentally, how is naming your twin kids the EXACT SAME NAME (just spelled differently) a thing? Outside of George Foreman, to whom does that make sense? - ‘Meet Karl and Carl.’ ’ - ‘Steven, go to your room! No, not you, Stephen…Steven is the one being punished!!!’ - ‘I want to leave my jewelry to Sara. But not one penny to Sarah.’ How did this work as a practical matter when Arryk and Erryk were trying to work in the Kingsguard? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252/20 "2024-06-26T20:05:30Z")
Arryk and Erryk sound different, it’s not like carl and karl. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-02-rhaenyra-the-cruel-6-23-24-open-spoilers/1003252.md?page=2)