# House of the Dragon 2.04 "The Red Dragon and the Gold" 7/7/24 OPEN SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [July 8, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852 "2024-07-08T02:51:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/21 "2024-07-11T00:56:08Z")
The greens have Aemond with Vaghar, Helaena with Dreamfyre (I seriously doubt she can be counted on to fight in a war) and the third son of Alicent who has only been name dropped so far in the show (Daeron, currently in Hightower). The blacks have Rhaenyra with Syrax, Jacaerys with Vermax, Daemon with Caraxes and Baela with Moondancer. So it’s 2 to 4 not counting Helaena. Or 3 to 3 if she is in and Daemon is out. Also of note there are several “extra” dragons at both King’s Landing in the dragonpit and at dragonstone. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/22 "2024-07-11T00:57:52Z")
We’ve seen Daemon sing to a dragon in season 1 as well. I assume that’s Chekov’s dragon/ ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/23 "2024-07-11T00:58:38Z")
Yeah, that’s Vermithor, second oldest to Vaghar. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/24 "2024-07-11T01:02:01Z")
Something tells me someone (Alyn? Mysaria?) is going to claim Seasmoke, Laenor Velaryon’s old mount. They’ll be on Team Black, one presumes. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/25 "2024-07-11T01:03:20Z")
Vhagar was a Velaryon dragon so I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/26 "2024-07-11T01:06:25Z")
Having not read the book, I fear I have no notion of dragon etiquette. Can you only claim one from one side or the other? And isn’t Alyn (or his brother, who I was actually thinking of) of the Velaryon line? Can you swap dragons, or do you keep the one you initially claimed for life? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/27 "2024-07-11T01:09:10Z")
I’m not sure either. I assume you can swap, otherwise what’s Daemon’s plan with Vermithor? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/28 "2024-07-11T01:11:05Z")
I mean, they’re all Velaryons. War between kin and all. I just don’t know how flexible or picky dragons are about who claims them. I was only thinking that Seasmoke is a currently unclaimed resource for the Blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/29 "2024-07-11T01:14:49Z")
I’m confused what you mean claiming from one side or the other. I thought you meant could a Targaryen claim a dragon that was previously claimed by a Velaryon or vice versa. The answer to that is yes, see Vhagar. But then you say they’re all Velaryons (Valyrian?) so I’m not sure what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/30 "2024-07-11T01:16:01Z")
The naming of dragons is curious thing. You have the old ones like Vhagar, Vermithor and all the ‘axes’. Which I guess are Old Valyria names. And then the young ones have names like Moondancer, Seasmoke and Dreamfyre. Like the next generation wanted more “hip” names for theirs. It just strikes me as odd when I see the dragons listed. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/31 "2024-07-11T01:16:26Z")
I’m sorry. I should probably think it through better before I ask questions. The whole family line sort of confuses me. Don’t mind me! ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/32 "2024-07-11T01:18:28Z")
As I understand it the Targaryens and the Velaryons are the last remaining houses that survived the Doom of Valyria. I don’t think they’re more closely related than, say, the Baratheons and Lannisters (both Andal stock). ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/33 "2024-07-11T01:20:24Z")
You’re right, of course. I claim temporary massive confusion. (Let’s hope it’s temporary!) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/34 "2024-07-11T01:35:51Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > The greens have Aemond with Vaghar, Helaena with Dreamfyre (I seriously doubt she can be counted on to fight in a war) and the third son of Alicent who has only been name dropped so far in the show (Daeron, currently in Hightower). The blacks have Rhaenyra with Syrax, Jacaerys with Vermax, Daemon with Caraxes and Baela with Moondancer. So it’s 2 to 4 not counting Helaena. Or 3 to 3 if she is in and Daemon is out. Also of note there are several “extra” dragons at both King’s Landing in the dragonpit and at dragonstone. Daeron’s dragon is Tessarion, who I’ve been most looking forward to seeing this season. Nicknamed “The Blue Queen”, she is a dark cobalt blue with highlights of bright copper. Her flames are cobalt blue as well. Also note that Moondancer, like Dreamfyre, is not yet of fighting size. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/35 "2024-07-11T10:37:01Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I was only thinking that Seasmoke is a currently unclaimed resource for the Blacks. I wouldn’t say unclaimed, as his rider is still alive. More like abandoned, and he seems a bit riled up about it the times we’ve seen him. > [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > Also note that Moondancer, like Dreamfyre, is not yet of fighting size. Dreamfyre is an older dragon, second largest on the green side. It’s not Helaena’s originally and it’s full grown already. Also, I don’t think the show is doing the whole colored flames thing, frankly it would look kinda goofy. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/36 "2024-07-11T14:25:07Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I wouldn’t say unclaimed, as his rider is still alive. Oh man, I must be misremembering Season 1. I thought he ended up dead and got burned in the fireplace? Eta: that’s right, it was a commoner, they faked his death. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/37 "2024-07-11T15:37:29Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’m sorry. I should probably think it through better before I ask questions. The whole family line sort of confuses me. Don’t mind me! I think you just confused Velaryion with Valyrian. Velaryons are the other house like the Targaryens that survived from the doom of Valyria. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/38 "2024-07-11T16:13:59Z")
The naming conventions, especially for the old world, are not helpful at all, either. Aemon vs Aemond vs Daemon. Velaryon vs Valyria. Rhaenys vs Rhaenyra. He did a good job at making them recognizable as Valyrian vs Andal, but distinguishing amongst them is a pain. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/39 "2024-07-11T16:49:08Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think you just confused Velaryion with Valyrian. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The naming conventions, especially for the old world, are not helpful at all, either. You’re both very kind, and yes, I do think I confused Velaryion with Valyrian. The naming conventions are extremely challenging to follow. For me, anyway. I do think familiarity with the written story would be a huge help in keeping it all straight. I may read the book(s?) at some point, but I mostly got taken in by the visual spectacle – costumes, CGI, etc. – and it does not disappoint! I marvel over how the production creates some of those visuals. Looking forward to Sunday’s episode. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852/40 "2024-07-11T18:54:29Z")
At the end, when Criston approaches the dragon crash scene, we see Aemond with his sword unsheathed, and he rather hastily puts it back in the scabbard when Criston gets near him. So was about to kill Aegon ? Or did he just do it ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-of-the-dragon-2-04-the-red-dragon-and-the-gold-7-7-24-open-spoilers/1003852.md?page=3)