# House passes "repeal and replace" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871 "2017-05-04T20:53:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1 "2017-05-04T20:53:38Z")
House just passed the “repeal and replace” bill that reverses key portions of Obamacare. I believe this is a wise policy move. But my finely trained sense of the SDMB suggests that a few here may disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/2 "2017-05-04T20:55:29Z")
Go ahead and start the debate. What do you prefer in this policy over ACA? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/3 "2017-05-04T20:56:17Z")
I believe your finely trained sense is correct. 😉 As someone who has no dog in this fight, I’m curious: why do you see it as a wise policy move? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/4 "2017-05-04T20:57:24Z")
> **[GOP's Obamacare replacement bill would protect just 5 percent of people with...](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/04/gops-obamacare-replacement-bill-would-protect-just-5-percent-of-people-with-pre-existing-conditions-analysis.html)** > > The House approved repeal and replace legislation on Thursday, almost two months after GOP leaders pulled an original bill off the floor. > [@](#): > > The Republican bill to repeal and replace Obamacare does not allocate nearly enough money to protect people with pre-existing health conditions from potentially higher insurance premiums, an analysis finds. > > The bill’s $23 billion in funding specifically for such people would cover just 110,000 Americans, according to the Avalere Health study released Thursday. > > That’s only 5 percent of the 2.2 million current enrollees in the individual insurance market with some type of pre-existing chronic condition. > > And even if states were to add in all the other money in the bill’s $100 billion Patient and State Stability Fund, only a total of 600,000 people with pre-exisiting conditions could be covered, the study found. > > Avalere said the gap between funding and need could leave many people with health problems unable to afford insurance coverage if the GOP’s American Health Care Act becomes law. > > “Texas alone has approximately 190,000 enrollees in its individual market with pre-existing chronic conditions, nearly 80,000 more people than the funds earmarked for the entire country would cover,” Avalere said. “Florida has 205,000, nearly 95,000 more than the funds allotted nationally … would cover.” So unwise, but we know that the Republican leadership will not let hypocrisy to get on the way of their efforts. [http://www.dailywire.com/news/16056/flashback-paul-ryan-2009-says-its-ridiculous-pass-hank-berrien](http://www.dailywire.com/news/16056/flashback-paul-ryan-2009-says-its-ridiculous-pass-hank-berrien) > [@](#): > > FLASHBACK: Paul Ryan In 2009 Says It’s Ridiculous To Pass A Bill Nobody Has Read [Sanders: How can you call it ‘reform’ when millions will lose insurance?](http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/331903-sanders-millions-will-lose-coverage-under-gop-healthcare-plan) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/5 "2017-05-04T20:57:36Z")
Does it matter, if the Senate decides to ignore it completely and start to work on their own version? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/6 "2017-05-04T20:58:42Z")
I see serious dissonance in left’s opinions of this. On one hand, they do agree that: 1. Republicans won the last few election cycles on the “repeal and replace” promise. and on the other hand they claim that 1. A big majority of voters doesn’t want “repeal and replace”. Unless Obamacare has tremendously improved in the last few years (and the facts point to exactly the opposite - to the point of a lot of counties in the US having no Obamacare providers anymore), the two points directly contradict each other. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/7 "2017-05-04T21:00:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Does it matter, if the Senate decides to ignore it completely and start to work on their own version? That was my thought. It’s a complete non-starter in the Senate, so what difference does it make? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/8 "2017-05-04T21:09:41Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I see serious dissonance in left’s opinions of this. On one hand, they do agree that: > > 1. Republicans won the last few election cycles on the “repeal and replace” promise. > > and on the other hand they claim that > > 1. A big majority of voters doesn’t want “repeal and replace”. > > Unless Obamacare has tremendously improved in the last few years (and the facts point to exactly the opposite - to the point of a lot of counties in the US having no Obamacare providers anymore), the two points directly contradict each other. Actually the numbers were that most Americans did want to have a better system or to reform the ACA. After the election it is clear that the ACA was one of those items several Trump voters expected that he would not follow up about because many of them do depend on it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/9 "2017-05-04T21:10:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I see serious dissonance in left’s opinions of this. On one hand, they do agree that: > > 1. Republicans won the last few election cycles on the “repeal and replace” promise. > > and on the other hand they claim that > > 1. A big majority of voters doesn’t want “repeal and replace”. > > Unless Obamacare has tremendously improved in the last few years (and the facts point to exactly the opposite - to the point of a lot of counties in the US having no Obamacare providers anymore), the two points directly contradict each other. If they want to replace it with something better, great. There are few on the left who would think that the ACA is the best that we can do. There are many things that could be done that would grant coverage to more people, for less, both in terms of premiums, and in terms of tax dollars to subsidize the system. This is what trump promised, and this is the healthcare that people voted for. They are not replacing it with something better, they are replacing it with something that will cover fewer people at a higher cost. If you want to make the argument that less coverage and higher cost is what people voted for, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/10 "2017-05-04T21:14:33Z")
My objection to Obamacare has always been one of basic philosophy: I don’t agree that providing everyone with health care is a proper role of government. Therefore, I think that it’s wise when we move away from that model, and unwise when we move towards it. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/11 "2017-05-04T21:16:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > House just passed the “repeal and replace” bill that reverses key portions of Obamacare. > > I believe this is a wise policy move. > > But my finely trained sense of the SDMB suggests that a few here may disagree. Please, enlighten us. If enacted as passed by the House, this bill would harm many people I know. Some of them might die. Tell us, what’s the bill doing that makes that ‘wise’? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/12 "2017-05-04T21:20:57Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > Please, enlighten us. If enacted as passed by the House, this bill would harm many people I know. Some of them might die. Tell us, what’s the bill doing that makes that ‘wise’? That only “the worthy” can have health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/13 "2017-05-04T21:21:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My objection to Obamacare has always been one of basic philosophy: I don’t agree that providing everyone with health care is a proper role of government. About 70% of the American people, the UN, nearly every international organization, and the governments of nearly every every country on Earth disagree with you, though, so that’s hardly a widely held belief. (And frankly, it’s a stupid belief. Why have government at all if it doesn’t provide services to people that are necessary for society to function but can’t be funded individually?) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/14 "2017-05-04T21:21:40Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > Please, enlighten us. If enacted as passed by the House, this bill would harm many people I know. Some of them might die. Tell us, what’s the bill doing that makes that ‘wise’? I am certainly sorry to hear that people you know may be harmed, but it’s not clear to me why that fact should trump (ha!) all others in a discussion of public policy. If we were to debate mandatory seatbelt laws, you could make the same statement – should I then simply retire from the mandatory seatbelt debate, because you invoked the possible deaths of people you know if your preferred policy is not accepted? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/15 "2017-05-04T21:21:59Z")
If there is little to no help with preexisting conditions, eventually it will free up a lot of space here on the SDMB for new posters. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/16 "2017-05-04T21:24:31Z")
From elsewhere > [@](#): > > Never have I seen legislative action that reveals such clear disdain for the human dignity of the most vulnerable among us It looks like a country without compassion. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/17 "2017-05-04T21:25:43Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I see serious dissonance in left’s opinions of this. On one hand, they do agree that: > > 1. Republicans won the last few election cycles on the “repeal and replace” promise. > > and on the other hand they claim that > > 1. A big majority of voters doesn’t want “repeal and replace”. > > Unless Obamacare has tremendously improved in the last few years (and the facts point to exactly the opposite - to the point of a lot of counties in the US having no Obamacare providers anymore), the two points directly contradict each other. No, the actual dissonance was among Trump voters, who cheered for repeal and replace and had no idea that any removal of benefits would actually apply to themselves as well as to all those other people they don’t like. My first reaction to this is that if a bill shaped like this actually passes and gets signed into law, it will give a huge boost to the Democrats to take over the House in 2018. If that happens, Trump can kiss his job and his (yuuuge) ass good-bye. Of course, after that, I feel concerned for those people, including some I know personally, who will lose insurance coverage and be only one serious condition away from bankruptcy or death. As for **Bricker** , do you feel like outlining how medical care should be handled in the real world without government involvement? More than a sentence or two would be nice, since you think that today’s event is moving in the right direction. What is the end result supposed to look like? If it’s not clear, I am challenging you to put up or shut up about this. There are lots of examples in the real world of single-payer health care systems that work pretty well; I have not yet seen one based solely on private resources that exists, let alone one that works. Please enlighten us poor collectivist savages. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/18 "2017-05-04T21:28:09Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > About 70% of the American people, the UN, nearly every international organization, and the governments of nearly every every country on Earth disagree with you, though, so that’s hardly a widely held belief. (And frankly, it’s a stupid belief. Why have government at all if it doesn’t provide services to people that are necessary for society to function but can’t be funded individually?) Fifty years ago, the nation managed to navigate itself without adopting the policy that the federal government owed free health care to citizens. Forty years ago, thirty, twenty – still we chugged along. Obamacare has been the law now for less than eight years. It’s clear to me that government functioned without it. In general, I am unpersuaded by the invocation of the U.N., to whom the United States pays roughly $8 billion US every year, far more than other countries. The message from the UN would seem to be along the lines of, “Let us tell you what you’re doing wrong, while you continue to pay us more than all the other ciuntries that are doing it right!” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/19 "2017-05-04T21:30:23Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > As for **Bricker** , do you feel like outlining how medical care should be handled in the real world without government involvement? More than a sentence or two would be nice, since you think that today’s event is moving in the right direction. What is the end result supposed to look like? If it’s not clear, I am challenging you to put up or shut up about this. There are lots of examples in the real world of single-payer health care systems that work pretty well; I have not yet seen one based solely on private resources that exists, let alone one that works. Please enlighten us poor collectivist savages. Do I feel like outlining a comprehensive national approach to health here because you challenged me to “put up or shut up?” No. But I’ll do it by reference. Let’s restore the system as it existed in the United States on January 20, 2009. Because I’m not talking about “without government involvement.” I’m talking about “without the obligation to pay for health care for everyone who can’t or won’t/” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/20 "2017-05-04T21:30:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My objection to Obamacare has always been one of basic philosophy: I don’t agree that providing everyone with health care is a proper role of government. > > Therefore, I think that it’s wise when we move away from that model, and unwise when we move towards it. Demonstratively unwise as virtually all developed nations that insure all their citizens with government support spent less money than our unsustainable costly irrational system. > **[Health care systems by country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_systems_by_country#/media/File:Health_Expenditure_per_capita_OECD_2013.png)** > > Examples of health care systems of the world, sorted by continent, are as follows. > Following sources of financing of healthcare systems can be categorized: > Countries in the table are categorized by the main system of financing their healthcare. Many countries in the world have multi-tiered healthcare systems with different ways of financing healthcare for different people and purposes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871.md?page=2)