# House passes "repeal and replace" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871 "2017-05-04T20:53:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/801 "2017-05-10T19:19:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The Communists built that wall to keep people from flooding _in_ to East Germany and using their health system? > > Are you even trying any more? Are you being serious? Here’s what Wikipedia says about it: > [@](#): > > The Eastern Bloc claimed that the Wall was erected to protect its population from fascist elements conspiring to prevent the “will of the people” in building a socialist state in East Germany. In practice, the Wall served to prevent the massive emigration and defection that had marked East Germany and the communist Eastern Bloc during the post-World War II period. > > … > > Before the Wall’s erection, 3.5 million East Germans circumvented Eastern Bloc emigration restrictions and defected from the GDR, many by crossing over the border from East Berlin into West Berlin; from which they could then travel to West Germany and other Western European countries. Between 1961 and 1989, the Wall prevented almost all such emigration.[6] During this period, around 5,000 people attempted to escape over the Wall, with an estimated death toll ranging from 136[7] to more than 200[8] in and around Berlin. You really think they were trying to keep people OUT?!? 😕 ETA: you are literally the very first person I’ve ever heard in my entire life express the idea that the Berlin Wall was meant to keep foreigners out, as opposed to the universally-accepted view that it was mean to keep East Germans from escaping to the West. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/802 "2017-05-10T19:32:13Z")
There was a question mark at the end of Czarcasm’s sentence. He thought that’s what you were implying. But seriously, your idea that the U.S. would get inundated by medical immigrants just as easily as Americans can switch states is beyond silly. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/803 "2017-05-10T19:36:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > (1) Done right, yes. > > (2) Yes. The plan is unwise, but constitutional, making Roberts’ decision correct. > > (3) Because the authority of the state to legislate a CommonCare plan is clear, and the federal government’s authority to do so has arisen from the years-long bleeding away of the distinction between federal and state powers. Which I believe is unwise. > > Too conservative for the liberals and too liberal for the conservatives, I apparently am. Card is revoked. You voted for Hillary, would have confirmed Garland, and upheld the ACA? Convince me how any of that is “conservative.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/804 "2017-05-10T19:37:30Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > There was a question mark at the end of Czarcasm’s sentence. He thought that’s what you were implying. Ahh, thanks, I’d missed the “?” > [@CarnalK](#): > > … just as easily … > [@Czarcasm](#): > > … just as easy … I don’t know where either of you got the word “just” as easy. It’s not what I said. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/805 "2017-05-10T19:39:03Z")
What about Obergefell? I know that you personally support legal same sex marriage, but would you have sided with Roberts or Kennedy in that opinion? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/806 "2017-05-10T19:43:01Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > …You’d need to require each stated to provide UHC, and give them the funds, but leave the system up to them. Let Vermont do VA for everyone, Virginia Medicare for all, and Texas do the Swiss system. But I don’t think that is politically realistic at all. Yeah, sure, but the old Block Grant Switcheroo. Give Texas the money with the firm suggestion that they spend it on medicine for poor folks, how long before they spend it on helping non-white people avoid the infectious contamination of voting booths? Got a stopwatch? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/807 "2017-05-10T20:00:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know where either of you got the word “just” as easy. It’s not what I said. No but you said: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If you want to argue that it’s a legitimate concern, then wouldn’t it still be one at the national level? Poor and medically needy can come in, and rich can leave the country almost as easily as they can a state. It’s certainly a more legitimate concern at the state level because of how easy it is to move between states. Moving to the country is a significantly bigger task. You could also refuse entry for people with significant health problems at the federal level which would be illegal at the state level. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/808 "2017-05-10T20:12:30Z")
Rich don’t even have to move, if they actually _wanted_ the cheap seat medical care the rest of us get. Just buy property in the appropriate state, and claim its your residence. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/809 "2017-05-10T20:15:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Card is revoked. You voted for Hillary, would have confirmed Garland, and upheld the ACA? > > Convince me how any of that is “conservative.” In a vacuum, voting for Hillary does not seem conservative, I grant you. But in the context of her opponent, I became convinced that on balance, the wiser vote was for her. I don’t agree that the role of the Senate is to apply litmus tests in the way you seem to be hinting. The judicial philosophy Garland espouses is not mine, to be sure, but Obama was the President and it’s clear that the Constitution gives him the role of nominating justices. I don’t like liberal senators substituting their own preferences for a presidential nominee, but I should do it myself, because my ideas are better? Finally, the ACA mandate was collected by the IRS and the subsidy payments were characterized as Advance Premium Tax Credits, and the government has taxing power. It’s not my role as a judge to substitute my ideas for good social policy in place of the enacted law. So: yes, yes, and yes. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/810 "2017-05-10T20:20:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Rich don’t even have to move, if they actually _wanted_ the cheap seat medical care the rest of us get. Just buy property in the appropriate state, and claim its your residence. Why don’t they do that now, and claim states with no state income tax as their residence? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/811 "2017-05-10T20:20:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In a vacuum, voting for Hillary does not seem conservative, I grant you. But in the context of her opponent, I became convinced that on balance, the wiser vote was for her… Your notion that “conservative” and “wise” are somehow synonymous is just as cute as can be! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/812 "2017-05-10T20:47:07Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Why don’t they do that now, and claim states with no state income tax as their residence? For actual rich people, income tax is not a big concern, especially the much lower state income tax. They’ll make the bulk of their money on capital gains and dividends. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/813 "2017-05-10T20:53:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Rich don’t even have to move, if they actually _wanted_ the cheap seat medical care the rest of us get. Just buy property in the appropriate state, and claim its your residence. CA has lots of filthy rich people and a high income tax rate. We don’t see many tax fugitives, though, but I know a few personally, and they do the whole “move for 6 months + 1 day” thing and carefully limit their visits back here during that time. Bottom line (ha!), I think the idea that the rich move to avoid tax is overplayed, but when they do, it’s still a PITA, and not just a matter of snapping up some scrub land in Nevada. Would that we all had such problems, though, huh? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/814 "2017-05-10T21:45:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You really think they were trying to keep people OUT?!? 😕 > > ETA: you are literally the very first person I’ve ever heard in my entire life express the idea that the Berlin Wall was meant to keep foreigners out, as opposed to the universally-accepted view that it was mean to keep East Germans from escaping to the West. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone misread a question so severely. Thanks for the laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/815 "2017-05-10T22:30:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Either one is doomed to fail on a state-based system if the poor and medically needy are allowed to come in from other states, and the rich can leave for other states that don’t have such a system. Without a pretty much stable/guaranteed base to support the system, the system breaks down in no time flat. The Massachusetts plan has been going on for eleven years. Health insurance is mandatory, actual law varies according to what the feds are doing, but about 97% of its residents are insured, and the Republican governor thinks Congress is full of idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/816 "2017-05-10T22:43:30Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > The Massachusetts plan has been going on for eleven years. Health insurance is mandatory, actual law varies according to what the feds are doing, but about 97% of its residents are insured, and the Republican governor thinks Congress is full of idiots. So, it existed prior to the ACA? And people from other states did not overrun their borders with their diseased teeming millions bodies? I don’t understand. According to what I read above, that was inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/817 "2017-05-10T23:21:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, it existed prior to the ACA? > > And people from other states did not overrun their borders with their diseased teeming millions bodies? > > I don’t understand. According to what I read above, that was inevitable. No, and it seemed pretty popular too, until it was tried at the federal level. Then it became a tool of Satan. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/818 "2017-05-10T23:39:33Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > The Massachusetts plan has been going on for eleven years. Health insurance is mandatory, actual law varies according to what the feds are doing, but about 97% of its residents are insured, and the Republican governor thinks Congress is full of idiots. How can this be? I have it on good authority that such a system would break down in no time flat: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Either one is doomed to fail on a state-based system if the poor and medically needy are allowed to come in from other states, and the rich can leave for other states that don’t have such a system. Without a pretty much stable/guaranteed base to support the system, the system breaks down in no time flat. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/819 "2017-05-11T00:10:22Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > No, and it seemed pretty popular too, until it was tried at the federal level. Then it became a tool of Satan. Sure, because states have plenary legislative authority and the federal government does not. Admittedly that’s not satanic, but that’s my basis for praising Massachusetts and rejecting the ACA as unwise. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/820 "2017-05-11T00:22:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure, because states have plenary legislative authority and the federal government does not. Admittedly that’s not satanic, but that’s my basis for praising Massachusetts and rejecting the ACA as unwise. I thought your basis was you were a callous, uncaring monster who wants to see poor people dying in the streets? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871.md?page=42)