# House passes "repeal and replace" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871 "2017-05-04T20:53:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1041 "2017-06-26T18:48:48Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Correlation is not the same as causation, as I am sure you know. So you expect passage of the AHCA to “correlate” to a higher death rate in the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1042 "2017-06-26T18:50:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But this is the question that is being begged. What principles support the idea of mandatory same sex marriage yet reject marriage between an adult father and his adult daughter (or, alternatively, two six-year olds)? Perhaps you could help us here by articulating the specific principles that allowed marriage between an adult man and an adult woman, but rejected marriage between an adult father and his adult daughter. Then we could help you understand if those same principles stand if we allow same-sex marriage. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1043 "2017-06-26T18:52:52Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Correlation is not the same as causation, as I am sure you know. The cited studies that started this side convo certainly hint at causation. Also, goddamn common sense that less access to health care will cause an increase in mortality. Quit being a brick wall and pretending nothing matters and just admit you don’t really care all that much if it does matter. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1044 "2017-06-26T19:18:23Z")
He seems to be claiming that DonTCare simply \*\*allows \*\*people to die rather than actually killing them. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1045 "2017-06-26T19:58:46Z")
Yeah I get that. Just like putting up guardrails on a twisty mountain road doesn’t really save lives, it merely stops people from killing themselves. If we sold all those guardrails for scrap metal, we aren’t literally killing people. Sound logic, weak morals. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1046 "2017-06-26T19:59:48Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Quit being a brick wall and pretending nothing matters and just admit you don’t really care all that much if it does matter. Please don’t presume to tell me what I think. It’s obnoxious, and probably not appropriate for this forum. TIA. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1047 "2017-06-26T20:10:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Please don’t presume to tell me what I think. It’s obnoxious, and probably not appropriate for this forum. TIA. It’s a reasonable surmising of your position. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1048 "2017-06-26T20:23:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s a reasonable surmising of your position. No, actually, it is not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1049 "2017-06-26T20:25:26Z")
Is. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1050 "2017-06-26T20:28:09Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Correlation is not the same as causation, as I am sure you know. My brain hurts. Please apologize for that. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1051 "2017-06-26T20:29:31Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > My brain hurts. Please apologize for that. No. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1052 "2017-06-26T20:30:15Z")
Everyone, that’s enough sniping. Is/Is not is not actually substantive debate. If you feel you need to take a break from the thread that’s also an option. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1053 "2017-06-26T20:31:48Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1054 "2017-06-26T21:47:48Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Perhaps you could help us here by articulating the specific principles that allowed marriage between an adult man and an adult woman, but rejected marriage between an adult father and his adult daughter. Then we could help you understand if those same principles stand if we allow same-sex marriage. Sure: [Begin principle]We inherited the concept of marriage, not only from English common law, but from _human_ common law. Sexual intercourse gives much pleasure, but it also causes unwanted babies. It’s best for society that we channel sexual intercourse into an institution called “marriage” whereby a couple capable of procreation, that is one man and one woman, who desire to have sexual intercourse, enter into a relationship whereby it lasts for a lifetime. Hey, it just so happens that the common religion shared by the people has such a relationship, so we will adopt its basic structure. We don’t want fathers and daughters having children, so they are out, and two guys cannot have a child, so they are out. Okay, it’s imperfect because infertile men and women can still marry, but we aren’t going to bother doing fertility testing. {end principle] Now, you may disagree with the above. I disagree with a lot of it, given modern society’s permissive attitudes about sex. But what about it violates the Constitution? Especially since the authors of the Constitution lived under that exact system and had no thought or desire to change it? Unlike the beliefs that take decisions away from the people, a particular piece of legislation does not need to make perfect sense. People are free to amend the legislation at the corners as they see fit. For judges to decree that a certain law is wrong, they must draw from an overarching principle to prevent it. Example: A city can pass an ordinance to disallow people in the public park after dark. That is fine. It doesn’t matter if I really like being in the park at dark, or if I’m not hurting anyone in the park after dark. The city can shut it down right then, and I’m free to elect a new city council if I don’t like it. The flip side is different. If you want to take power away from the people through their city council to prohibit people from visiting the park after dark, you have to find some fundamental right or freedom that allows people to attend the park after dark. The burdens are not equal. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1055 "2017-06-26T23:21:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Please don’t presume to tell me what I think. . . . Will you promise to return the favor? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1056 "2017-06-27T00:54:58Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Will you promise to return the favor? No, he will not, as I instructed. Please do the same. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1057 "2017-06-27T01:20:52Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Although I would point out that most of the increases in life expectancy from that time period have been in child survival. And not dying as the result of pregnancy or puerperal fever. Doctors and midwives consistently and thoroughly hand-washing before poking around in the parts of a woman having a baby saved many lives, and it took until the mid-to-late 1800s (IIRC) to make that the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1058 "2017-06-27T13:08:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Sure: [Begin principle]We inherited the concept of marriage, not only from English common law, but from _human_ common law. Sexual intercourse gives much pleasure, but it also causes unwanted babies. It’s best for society that we channel sexual intercourse into an institution called “marriage” whereby a couple capable of procreation, that is one man and one woman, who desire to have sexual intercourse, enter into a relationship whereby it lasts for a lifetime. > > Hey, it just so happens that the common religion shared by the people has such a relationship, so we will adopt its basic structure. We don’t want fathers and daughters having children, so they are out, and two guys cannot have a child, so they are out. > > Okay, it’s imperfect because infertile men and women can still marry, but we aren’t going to bother doing fertility testing. {end principle] That seems needlessly complicated. How about “Two consenting adults can get married”? An easy principle to explain, and treats all consenting adults equally. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1059 "2017-06-27T13:40:08Z")
Can we keep the thread on Repeal and Replace, please? Plenty of other threads out there for other topics. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1060 "2017-06-27T16:12:59Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > IF the ACHA should pass and be signed into law, it won’t cause any deaths. Cite away. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > And “increasing the wealth divide” is simple partisan leftwing nonsense. Get this through your head. I AM NOT A LIBERAL. I am a registered Democrat because that’s pretty much the only choice a responsible, fact-driven person can make in this environment, and because my state required it in order for me to vote for a Democrat in the primaries. My partisanship is anti-bullshit vs. bullshit, and there is only one major party that’s anywhere near that standard. [Here’s what didn’t change in the Senate’s health care bill: $1 trillion in tax cuts](http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/22/heres-what-didnt-change-in-the-senates-health-care-bill-1-trillion-in-tax-cuts.html) > [@](#): > > The health-care bill the GOP rolled out on Thursday morning will retain the nearly $1 trillion in tax cuts previously proposed, with few minor differences. > > This means the Senate health-care bill’s tax breaks would go primarily to the wealthy, with 40 percent of savings going to the top 1 percent of earners and 64 percent of savings going to the top 20 percent of earners. So, let me make sure I’ve got this straight. Your position is that making a giant tax cut that inequitably provides benefits to the most wealthy among us _doesn’t_ increase the wealth divide? Or is that just ‘partisan nonsense?’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871.md?page=54)