# House passes "repeal and replace" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871 "2017-05-04T20:53:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1061 "2017-06-27T16:32:45Z")
There are two pretty simple ways of narrowing the wealth divide. Obviously, one is less poors. Well, then, there you have it! The Trumpcare solution is the intellectual marriage of supply-side economics and Social Darwinism, and a reduction of the number of poors is clearly the goal, _and the result!_ Regrettably, the other part of narrowing that divide is somewhat lacking: there is no mechanism to increase the numbers of persons in the winner’s circle, on the other side of the velvet noose. But it will more securely ensure their status, so, there’s that! Money to be invested, at a handsome rate of interest, rather than frittered away on food and medicine for the undeserving. Look to private prisons and gated communities as the sterling investments for America’s future! Because you can always hire half the poor to protect you from the other half. Unless they catch on. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1062 "2017-06-27T16:41:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There are two pretty simple ways of narrowing the wealth divide. Obviously, one is less poors. Well, then, there you have it! The Trumpcare solution is the intellectual marriage of supply-side economics and Social Darwinism, and a reduction of the number of poors is clearly the goal, _and the result!_ > > Regrettably, the other part of narrowing that divide is somewhat lacking: there is no mechanism to increase the numbers of persons in the winner’s circle, on the other side of the velvet noose. But it will more securely ensure their status, so, there’s that! Money to be invested, at a handsome rate of interest, rather than frittered away on food and medicine for the undeserving. The first part is also lacking. Voodoo economics was disproven decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1063 "2017-06-27T18:03:19Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > The first part is also lacking. Voodoo economics was disproven decades ago. I’m pretty sure **elucidator’s** point was more on the idea of reducing the number of poor folks by increase mortality, more than increasing their wealth. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1064 "2017-06-27T18:14:11Z")
Vote postponed! We live another week. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1065 "2017-06-27T18:45:30Z")
Now the waverers get to go back to their town halls and hear from a multitude of registered voters about just how misbegotten this thing is. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1066 "2017-06-27T19:02:21Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > IF the ACHA should pass and be signed into law, it won’t cause any deaths. > > And “increasing the wealth divide” is simple partisan leftwing nonsense. Sure. And if people don’t have health care, it’ll be their own damn fault for not buying it. (Affordability be damned.) > **[Ryan says, " The reason millions won't have healthcare...."They won't buy it"](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/6/27/1675696/-Ryan-says-The-reason-millions-won-t-have-healthcare-They-won-t-buy-it)** > > The very same reason I don’t have a Porsche, a jet and a mansion on the hilltop. > > He is smug and it goes so well with his logic.  Smug goes with Nonsensical.  > > I guess he wants us to sell a kidney to get annual checkups or maybe a flu... ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1067 "2017-06-27T19:11:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Cite away. Once again, the person(s) making the claim that Repeal and Replace will KILL people have the burden of proof. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1068 "2017-06-27T19:46:01Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Once again, the person(s) making the claim that Repeal and Replace will KILL people have the burden of proof. Less access to health care will lead to higher mortality rates. Since you don’t seem to think that means anything there really is no point trying to prove anything to your satisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1069 "2017-06-27T19:53:19Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Less access to health care will lead to higher mortality rates. Since you don’t seem to think that means anything there really is no point trying to prove anything to your satisfaction. It has nothing to do with "my satisfaction. In a debate, the person making the claim has the burden of proof. Spouting rhetoric is not proof. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1070 "2017-06-27T20:08:19Z")
Do you know what \*irony \*means? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1071 "2017-06-27T20:08:42Z")
Less access to healthcare means more deaths per year. That’s not rhetoric. Your sole argument is enacting legislation that leads to higher mortality is not the same as killing. Who cares? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1072 "2017-06-27T20:17:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Vote postponed! We live another week. What does it mean, what I’ve heard on the news, that if it doesn’t get done by June 30… then what? Is that something procedural or just some general target date? It can be voted upon at any old time, right? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1073 "2017-06-27T20:23:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Once again, the person(s) making the claim that Repeal and Replace will KILL people have the burden of proof. The causal link between Trumpcare and reduced access to medical services is established in the CBO report. The causal link between reduced access to medical services and increased mortality is established by the demographic statistics of the past few centuries. Brought to you by the letters “Q”, “E”, and “D”. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1074 "2017-06-27T20:34:34Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > What does it mean, what I’ve heard on the news, that if it doesn’t get done by June 30… then what? Is that something procedural or just some general target date? It can be voted upon at any old time, right? It can be voted on any old time. The Republicans were worried that the longer the bill is in the news, the more people will find things in it they don’t like and will pressure their Senators/Reps\* to vote against it. The week of July 4 will be off so that’s a whole week for opponents of the bill to mobilize against it. - The House needs to approve the amends to the original bill, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1075 "2017-06-27T20:35:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Once again, the person(s) making the claim that Repeal and Replace will KILL people have the burden of proof. I cited three studies (from places like the CDC and Harvard) that show that lack of insurance results in at a minimum a few thousand, and most likely several tens of thousands of deaths. Then you said, “Nuh-uh!” In your world, what is the burden of proof required to overcome “I don’t want to face the reality of policy positions that I support?” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1076 "2017-06-27T20:39:52Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > It can be voted on any old time. The Republicans were worried that the longer the bill is in the news, the more people will find things in it they don’t like and will pressure their Senators/Reps\* to vote against it. The week of July 4 will be off so that’s a whole week for opponents of the bill to mobilize against it. > > - The House needs to approve the amends to the original bill, right? I see: “Pass it before anyone knows what’s in it”. That’s something to be proud of right there. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1077 "2017-06-27T20:55:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I cited three studies (from places like the CDC and Harvard) that show that lack of insurance results in at a minimum a few thousand, and most likely several tens of thousands of deaths. > > Then you said, “Nuh-uh!” > > In your world, what is the burden of proof required to overcome “I don’t want to face the reality of policy positions that I support?” Lack of insurance may very well increase mortality rates, as your cites say. But that’s not the same thing as saying that a bill before Congress is going to kill people. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1078 "2017-06-27T20:59:22Z")
And if the bill passes, the pen used to sign it won’t kill anyone either! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1079 "2017-06-27T21:11:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Less access to healthcare means more deaths per year. That’s not rhetoric. Your sole argument is enacting legislation that leads to higher mortality is not the same as killing. Who cares? I asked this before and never got a satisfactory answer. Has there been any noteworthy change in the trends / statistics that define our national health since Obamacare went into effect? Life expectancy / infant mortality / deaths per year / etc. Have all those statistics pretty much continued on the trend line they were on before, or has there been some noticeable improvement at the national level? Or maybe (it would be even better) among the states that have gone further in adopting Obamacare than others? Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1080 "2017-06-27T21:16:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Lack of insurance may very well increase mortality rates, as your cites say. But that’s not the same thing as saying that a bill before Congress is going to kill people. Well, yes, it directly leads to deaths in the hundreds, maybe thousands. That’s called “killing” by anyone other than a language pedant. If I physically prevent you from getting into the emergency room, I’ve pretty much killed you, even if I never touch you with so much as a finger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871.md?page=55)