# House passes "repeal and replace" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871 "2017-05-04T20:53:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1241 "2017-06-30T17:14:15Z")
> **[74 percent. Your health care premium could go up that much](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/74-percent-your-health-care-premium-could-go-much-n777321)** > > Insurance premiums would shoot up 74 percent on average under the GOP Senate bill, according to a new report, with older customers paying more than twice as much. > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON — Insurance premiums would shoot up 74 percent for the average customer under the Republican Senate health care bill, according to a new report, with older customers having to pay more than twice as much for comparable plans. > > The study by the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation looked at the average cost for an individual market plan that covers about 70 percent of medical costs, which is the benchmark plan under Obamacare, and factored in both the price of insurance and the amount of subsidies people would receive. Well _that’s_ interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1242 "2017-06-30T21:54:07Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > One sad story is an anecdote. Enough sad stories put together is a systemic failure. Kind of like police shootings in that way. How many do we need? Would you have opposed Obamacare if the Republicans had trotted out someone who lost some aspect of critical care due to a narrowing of their doctor network, and as a result their child died? What if they could find 100 people that were tragically affected? Would you change your mind then? When the federal government makes any change to any program whatsoever in a nation of 300 million people, there will be many winners and losers. The change to wetlands laws caused people to lose their homes. Every regulation hurts someone, even if it’s beneficial overall. If the Republicans trotted out the wife and children of a businessman who committed suicide because a regulation pushed his business into foreclosure, would you consider that a valid argument against tax hikes? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1243 "2017-06-30T22:14:43Z")
Would everyone stop posting anecdotes? It gives pubs the excuse to yell “anecdotes are not data!” and besides that it has been made manifestly clear in this thread alone that the suffering of others is not germane to their thoughts on whether other people should get health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1244 "2017-06-30T22:19:43Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Would everyone stop posting anecdotes? It gives pubs the excuse to yell “anecdotes are not data!” and besides that it has been made manifestly clear in this thread alone that the suffering of others is not germane to their thoughts on whether other people should get health insurance. But, there was this one time that an anecdote changed a republican’s mind. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1245 "2017-06-30T22:23:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, there was this one time that an anecdote changed a republican’s mind. Ah, well, I can’t argue with that. Carry on then. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1246 "2017-06-30T22:29:24Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Ah, well, I can’t argue with that. Carry on then. To be serious, though, anecdotes can change minds, if it is an anecdote that means something to them. Most republicans didn’t go for SSM, or really any rights towards homosexuals, no matter the stats you showed them, they just didn’t care. It was only when they had family that were gay, that they changed their minds on the subject. So, you are absolutely correct that no matter the number of anecdotal stories that you tell them, they will not change their minds, but stats don’t work on them either. The only thing that ever really changes anyone’s mind is an anecdote that they can relate to. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1247 "2017-06-30T22:32:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Would everyone stop posting anecdotes? It gives pubs the excuse to yell “anecdotes are not data!” and besides that it has been made manifestly clear in this thread alone that the suffering of others is not germane to their thoughts on whether other people should get health insurance. Republicans? The people who will dismiss science and fact based on some random person’s blog? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1248 "2017-06-30T22:57:07Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Republicans? The people who will dismiss science and fact based on some random person’s blog? :dubious: Anecdotes will not change their minds. However, anecdotes that agree with their existing beliefs, even a single anecdote that is entirely fictional, will cement in their minds that their existing beliefs are entirely correct forever. To be fair, liberals and other people are susceptible to this too, though not as effectively since empathy and facts can on rare occasion drill holes in their defenses. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1249 "2017-06-30T23:42:25Z")
And it just gets better n’ better. Trump wants to repeal ACA now and worry about replacing it at some later date: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health\_care/gop-may-keep-obama-tax-on-wealthy-in-bid-to-save-health-bill/2017/06/30/536bc406-5d67-11e7-aa69-3964a7d55207\_story.html?utm\_term=.bccc95d13edf](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health_care/gop-may-keep-obama-tax-on-wealthy-in-bid-to-save-health-bill/2017/06/30/536bc406-5d67-11e7-aa69-3964a7d55207_story.html?utm_term=.bccc95d13edf) Or, as Rand Paul puts it, “work on replacing it right away.” WTF does this mean? Dismantle it overnight and produce a solution a few nights later? A few weeks later? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1250 "2017-06-30T23:43:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > How many do we need? Would you have opposed Obamacare if the Republicans had trotted out someone who lost some aspect of critical care due to a narrowing of their doctor network, and as a result their child died? What if they could find 100 people that were tragically affected? Would you change your mind then? > > When the federal government makes any change to any program whatsoever in a nation of 300 million people, there will be many winners and losers. The change to wetlands laws caused people to lose their homes. Every regulation hurts someone, even if it’s beneficial overall. If the Republicans trotted out the wife and children of a businessman who committed suicide because a regulation pushed his business into foreclosure, would you consider that a valid argument against tax hikes? How is the proposed AHCA “beneficial overall”? ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1251 "2017-06-30T23:46:47Z")
Man, it’s really hard for conservatives to make any good arguments for this bill. Some conservative posters on here make debatable arguments for their positions so at least I can see the logic they use, but this thread is just empty of that. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1252 "2017-06-30T23:48:04Z")
**Bricker** , some of us are genuinely curious to hear your thoughts on Medicaid—see posts #1224 and #1227. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1253 "2017-07-01T01:52:39Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Man, it’s really hard for conservatives to make any good arguments for this bill. Some conservative posters on here make debatable arguments for their positions so at least I can see the logic they use, but this thread is just empty of that. The only argument that really holds water is the extremist tea-party argument that “Government shouldn’t be in the business of health care at all.” It’s a harmful, dangerous, and ugly viewpoint, but at least it is logically self-consistent. The Senators who say, “This bill will reduce premiums” are the really evil sons of bitches, because they know damn well it will do exactly the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1254 "2017-07-01T01:55:54Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Senators who say, “This bill will reduce premiums” are the really evil sons of bitches, because they know damn well it will do exactly the opposite. The CBO appeared to agree with those Senators. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1255 "2017-07-01T01:57:43Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Man, it’s really hard for conservatives to make any good arguments for this bill. Some conservative posters on here make debatable arguments for their positions so at least I can see the logic they use, but this thread is just empty of that. You didn’t find my “I think it might save me money” argument compelling? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1256 "2017-07-01T02:04:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The CBO appeared to agree with those Senators. What about plans that are actually worth something? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1257 "2017-07-01T07:00:14Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Less access to healthcare means more deaths per year. That’s not rhetoric. Your sole argument is enacting legislation that leads to higher mortality is not the same as killing. Who cares? Medicaid Todd’s could force a lot more rural hospitals to close, severely curtailing access to Medical Care in a timely fashion. And it’s not just for a few people. It’s for quite a few. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4Hf6vnVx-4Q/hqdefault.jpg "Medicaid cuts could shutter rural hospitals") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hf6vnVx-4Q) Then again, those bumpkins could just move to more metropolitan area, right? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1258 "2017-07-01T18:16:01Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > And it just gets better n’ better. > > Trump wants to repeal ACA now and worry about replacing it at some later date: > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health\_care/gop-may-keep-obama-tax-on-wealthy-in-bid-to-save-health-bill/2017/06/30/536bc406-5d67-11e7-aa69-3964a7d55207\_story.html?utm\_term=.bccc95d13edf](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health_care/gop-may-keep-obama-tax-on-wealthy-in-bid-to-save-health-bill/2017/06/30/536bc406-5d67-11e7-aa69-3964a7d55207_story.html?utm_term=.bccc95d13edf) > > Or, as Rand Paul puts it, “work on replacing it right away.” WTF does this mean? Dismantle it overnight and produce a solution a few nights later? A few weeks later? With a one-year deadline. Because we all know Congress always meets a deadline. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1259 "2017-07-01T18:30:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You didn’t find my “I think it might save me money” argument compelling? It has been shown that it is not really going to be saving you money. Premiums may go down by as much a 4% less than they would without the plan. Note, this does not say that they will be 4% less than they are now, but 4% less than they would be with the current ACA in place. Your deductibles and out of pocket expenses will be going up by substantially more than 4%. Saving on your premiums is not the same as saving money. You might think it will, but unless you are always super healthy and never actually use the insurance you are paying on, you will almost certainly come out behind. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871/1260 "2017-07-01T21:17:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The CBO appeared to agree with those Senators. With a concomitant reduction in covered services. Tell ya what…I’ll sell you a mountain bike for $300 or a car for $40,000. You’d prefer the bike, of course, since it’s cheaper, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-passes-repeal-and-replace/785871.md?page=64)