# House Republicans seriously considering default or shutting down the government to coerce Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 14, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193 "2013-01-14T18:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/1 "2013-01-14T18:01:51Z")
[Link.](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/behind-the-curtain-house-gop-eyes-default-shutdown-86116.html?hp=t1) > [@](#): > > House Republicans are seriously entertaining dramatic steps, including default or shutting down the government, to force President Barack Obama to finally cut spending by the end of March. > > The idea of allowing the country to default by refusing to increase the debt limit is getting more widespread and serious traction among House Republicans than people realize, though GOP leaders think shutting down the government is the much more likely outcome of the spending fights this winter. > > “I think it is possible that we would shut down the government to make sure President Obama understands that we’re serious,” House Republican Conference Chairwoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington state told us. “We always talk about whether or not we’re going to kick the can down the road. I think the mood is that we’ve come to the end of the road.” Predictable. As long as they keep getting rewarded for using the economy as a hostage, they’ll keep doing it and it’ll keep getting worse. And if they wreck the country in the process they don’t care in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/2 "2013-01-14T18:11:51Z")
Today Obama said he won’t offer spending cuts in return for another debt ceiling increase, so it seems to me he’s pretty much daring them to go ahead with this. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/3 "2013-01-14T18:23:05Z")
As Barney Fife would say, nip it in the bud. Since Congress authorized the spending and the tax structure, Congress needs to either pass a balanced budget or agree to any debt ceiling that is required. If Obama negotiates now, it will obligate every future president to have to bargain with Congress over a problem it created. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/4 "2013-01-14T18:35:51Z")
House Republicans just went out of their way to avoid token cuts. Either they’ve all changed their mind in two weeks or they’re bullshitting. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/5 "2013-01-14T18:40:08Z")
Boehner says Republicans will vote to raise the debt ceiling and won’t force a shutdown, but they’ll need a compromise on spending. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/6 "2013-01-14T18:44:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Link.](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/behind-the-curtain-house-gop-eyes-default-shutdown-86116.html?hp=t1) > > Predictable. As long as they keep getting rewarded for using the economy as a hostage, they’ll keep doing it and it’ll keep getting worse. And if they wreck the country in the process they don’t care in the slightest. But they haven’t been getting rewarded. Didn’t we just have an election? Wasn’t the president reelected? Good grief the Republicans are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/7 "2013-01-14T19:10:14Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > But they haven’t been getting rewarded. The Democrats have backed down again and again. That’s being rewarded. > [@suranyi](#): > > Didn’t we just have an election? Wasn’t the president reelected? And they seem pretty heavily deluded as to why. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/8 "2013-01-14T19:18:39Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > But they haven’t been getting rewarded. Didn’t we just have an election? Wasn’t the president reelected?. Yes, but so did congress, and while the president may be the president of the whole nation, each congressman is just the congressman of his own heavily gerrymandered district. If bringing down the country is what it takes to make the pea-brains that elected these jokers feel that they are sticking it to the man, then the Congressman is going to go ahead and do it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/9 "2013-01-14T19:33:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Boehner says Republicans will vote to raise the debt ceiling and won’t force a shutdown, but they’ll need a compromise on spending. A compromise with _what?!?_ We know what Obama’s position is (clean debt limit increase). What’s the GOP’s ask? And how can the Dems compromise with it if it doesn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/10 "2013-01-14T19:50:20Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > A compromise with _what?!?_ > > We know what Obama’s position is (clean debt limit increase). > > What’s the GOP’s ask? Presumably “Give us everything we want in return for nothing”; that’s been their idea of “compromise” for many years and they’ve only gotten more rabid over time. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/11 "2013-01-14T20:02:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Presumably “Give us everything we want in return for nothing”; that’s been their idea of “compromise” for many years and they’ve only gotten more rabid over time. Yeah pretty much. And then of course when you go along with that and do what they want, they accuse you of being the most partisan, liberal, divisive president of all time. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/12 "2013-01-14T20:12:48Z")
The real problem here is that, if a “clean” debt ceiling increase were put to a vote in the House, there is no doubt it would get a clear majority. But Boehner won’t do that because of the “Hastert Rule”, the precedent which requires a “majority of the majority” to agree before bringing legislation to the floor. So, along with partisan gerrymandering and the Senate filibuster, this is yet another arcane, extra-constitutional “rule” the GOP uses to force their minority will on the rest of government. Boehner could–quite legally–end the supposed impasse by allowing for a vote in the House (the Hastert rule is completely voluntary), but that would likely threaten his job as speaker. Once again, the GOP has put personal politics ahead of the good of the country. The need for serious federal legislative reforms has never been clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/13 "2013-01-14T20:15:03Z")
Something I’ve lost track of in all this and maybe someone can help me. Most likely the extraordinary measures Treasury is using to pay the bills will run out of their ability to finance the government’s ongoing operations sometimes in March, right? But do we actually have a budget in force for FY 2013? Or are we operating on some form of continuing resolution until March when the sequester and etc kick in and then we either have to approve another continuing resolution or pass a real budget? It’s been so long since we’ve had an actual proper budgeting process I find it hard to keep track of everything. The way I see it, over 70% of Americans believe we need to cut in government spending. The Republicans have given the President a tax increase, not as much as I think was necessary, but still, it’s been given. The GOP has a responsibility to fight to get spending under control. However, the way I see it we should still be able to increase the debt ceiling so we don’t default, but still say “we aren’t going past the end of the current continuing resolution without a proper budget that includes spending cuts.” Is that true or false? I don’t see how anyone can oppose us actually having a real budget instead of just operating with endless half measures where nothing gets to see the light of day and all the spending and revenue is negotiated behind the scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/14 "2013-01-14T20:17:26Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > The real problem here is that, if a “clean” debt ceiling increase were put to a vote in the House, there is no doubt it would get a clear majority. But Boehner won’t do that because of the “Hastert Rule”, the precedent which requires a “majority of the majority” to agree before bringing legislation to the floor. > > So, along with partisan gerrymandering and the Senate filibuster, this is yet another arcane, extra-constitutional “rule” the GOP uses to force their minority will on the rest of government. Boehner could–quite legally–end the supposed impasse by allowing for a vote in the House (the Hastert rule is completely voluntary), but that would likely threaten his job as speaker. > > Once again, the GOP has put personal politics ahead of the good of the country. The need for serious federal legislative reforms has never been clearer. The Hastert Rule is just a “code of conduct” for GOP Speakers. It’s not enforceable on the rest of Congress. If a number of Republicans wish to join with all the Democrats in passing a discharge resolution they can bring legislation to the floor without the Speaker. The Speaker has no procedural powers to stop legislation if a majority actually want to bring it to the floor. Of course, the number that would vote for something is different than the number willing to vote against the Speaker in a discharge petition. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/15 "2013-01-14T20:18:04Z")
I believe you are correct, **Martin** , and that is the approach the President would like to take. Clean debt ceiling bill + negotiations on the sequester that leads to a new budget deal. The GOP wants to roll it up in one package because they believe the debt ceiling is a point of leverage for them. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/16 "2013-01-14T20:20:38Z")
If history is any guide, when Newt shut down the Gov’t on Clinton it was the Republicans who lost out. Newt was eventually out of a job. If they do shut down the Gov’t, just make sure nobody hires any interns with blue dresses and loose morals. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/17 "2013-01-14T20:21:49Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I believe you are correct, **Martin** , and that is the approach the President would like to take. Clean debt ceiling bill + negotiations on the sequester that leads to a new budget deal. > > The GOP wants to roll it up in one package because they believe the debt ceiling is a point of leverage for them. I’m a Republican by the way, but if that’s Obama’s position I agree with him. I don’t agree with him that we “don’t have a spending problem.” But the debt ceiling is really no extra leverage and just hurts the standing of the United States. If our continuing resolution expires in March then Obama can’t fund jack shit without a new budget or another CR, I don’t see how the traditional “power of the purse” isn’t leverage enough. I see no reason to also threaten to default on debt. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/18 "2013-01-14T20:23:20Z")
I should perhaps add that the political problem (well, one of them) is that the GOP’s preferred budget is wildly unpopular, as is the President’s budget. Any compromise budget will likely be just as unpopular (because it will cut popular programs AND STILL have huge deficits due to the slow recovery). So you have a situation where even if both sides could agree on a plan that cut spending and put us on the path towards a more workable deficit, it’s probably not in either side’s short-term interest to propose it or vote for it. Better to make the other side have to propose it and vote for it, and potentially take the heat. That’s why even on the debt ceiling the GOP is only calling for unspecified “spending cuts” and saying it’s the President that has to propose specific cuts. This is where some leadership by the President and Mr. Boehner would help, but unfortunately the Speaker has shown that his caucus will not vote for any sort of compromise budget. And the Democrats in the Senate have very little reason to support a budget with changes to entitlement that doesn’t include anything they like (perhaps changes to how the debt ceiling works, or some new revenue - both of which likely can’t pass the GOP House). Especially when they can, somewhat correctly, say that this is not the ideal time for significant spending cuts (long-term restructuring, perhaps, with cuts that phase in over time). It’s a right mess. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/19 "2013-01-14T20:28:42Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’m a Republican by the way, but if that’s Obama’s position I agree with him. I know you are, but also know that you’re one of the few that support a more balanced approach to fixing the budget debacle. If your policies were the policies of the GOP I’d probably still vote for them too. 😉 > [@](#): > > I don’t agree with him that we “don’t have a spending problem.” Me neither, although his entire statement is more justifiable. Because if health-care costs were under control the future budget outlook would be much, much better. > [@](#): > > But the debt ceiling is really no extra leverage and just hurts the standing of the United States. From your lips to Boehner’s ears > [@](#): > > If our continuing resolution expires in March then Obama can’t fund jack shit without a new budget or another CR, I don’t see how the traditional “power of the purse” isn’t leverage enough. I see no reason to also threaten to default on debt. As I understand it this is true. The current Continuing Resolution ends on March 27, 2013. ETA: The last three Continuing Resolutions contained spending cuts of $4B, $6B, and $2B from 2010 baselines. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193/20 "2013-01-14T23:39:53Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Didn’t we just have an election? Wasn’t the president reelected? He was elected as president. They were elected as congressmen. What’s your point? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-seriously-considering-default-or-shutting-down-the-government-to-coerce-obama/647193.md?page=2)