# House Republicans stand stalwart for Wilson **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235 "2009-09-15T21:32:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/21 "2009-09-16T01:50:02Z")
This is so fucking last week. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/22 "2009-09-16T01:50:44Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > You guys really do have nothing, don’t you? Not even the shoe thrower anymore: [Iraqi who threw a shoe at Bush is released](http://www.chinapost.com.tw/international/middle-east/2009/09/16/224800/Iraqi-who.htm) > [@](#): > > Outside his home in central Baghdad, celebrations erupted at the news of his release, with women crying out and breaking into traditional Iraqi dances. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/23 "2009-09-16T01:54:45Z")
Seriously, folks. Why this imbroglio over a decidedly minor incident? Who cares? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/24 "2009-09-16T01:56:17Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > This is so fucking last week. In fact, asshole, this happened today. Have you been reading Kathleen Parker, who, the day after Wilson’s outburst, opined that his vilification had gone on long enough already? Finding that my initial outburst has worn out, I’ll ask, Do you support or oppose the disaproval of the House of Representatives of Mr. Wilson’s outburst. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/25 "2009-09-16T01:57:12Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Uh, [already happened.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/24/MN8LSUUMF.DTL&type=printable) So I don’t know who you’d call the paving crew here. Speaking of liars… The incident the OP was talking about was, specifically: > [@](#): > > There is absolutely nothing wrong with calling the President of the United States a liar **while he is addressing a joint session of Congress**. Bolding mine. If the jerkoffs in the Republican Party want to insult Obama during regular floor debate, i’ve got no problem with it. Doing so during a speech, like Wilson did, is a different animal altogether. > [@Scylla](#): > > This is so fucking last week. It’s always “so last week” when it’s one of your guys, isn’t it? The elephant never forgets, except when politically expedient. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/26 "2009-09-16T01:58:48Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Still don’t care. This whole thing is an enormous waste of time and money. a) THEN WHY DID YOU POST? 2: I have to go with Senator Frank on this one. IMNPFHO, for the friggin’ Federal Legislative Branch to waste their time and our money saying, “You’re a bad boy and should keep your whore mouth shut while adults are talking” is completely ridiculous. Third; These are supposed to be ADULTS. Not only that but, in theory\* these are supposed to be the people who WE THINK are the BEST FOLKS in the WHOLE COUNTRY to represent us. If one of my kids interrupted the principal while he was speaking to the school I wouldn’t go running to his defense,\*\* I’d feel fuckin’ embarassed. - Colloquial, not scientific \*\* If it turns out the principal WAS a liar or what-have-you, and it effected my kid’s education, I’d pull my kid out of the school. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/27 "2009-09-16T02:00:13Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > This is so fucking last week. No, not even [close](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxKIcrDsJAs). ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/28 "2009-09-16T02:03:23Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > In fact, asshole, this happened today. No. It happened last week. Serena happened Saturday. That’s old. Kanye happened yesterday. That’s already gotten stale. You’re living in the past. > [@](#): > > Have you been reading Kathleen Parker, who, the day after Wilson’s outburst, opined that his vilification had gone on long enough already? No. I thought it was bullshit to disrepect the office of the President, and I was pissed off at Wilson, but then the next day he apologized “quickly and unreservedly” to Obama. Obama Accepted. I moved on. > [@](#): > > Finding that my initial outburst has worn out, I’ll ask, Do you support or oppose the disaproval of the House of Representatives of Mr. Wilson’s outburst. I think it’s a fucking stupid waste of time and money. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/29 "2009-09-16T02:09:27Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I think it’s a fucking stupid waste of time and money. Ah, so that’s the line. The vote did, in fact delay the House from voting on the “Kansas City Animal Corridor”, whatever the fuck that is. (It passed.) Perhaps you could explain to me in what way (and this may take small words) the House of Representatives debating the actions of one of its members is a waste of time and money? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/30 "2009-09-16T02:09:57Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It’s always “so last week” when it’s one of your guys, isn’t it? The elephant never forgets, except when politically expedient. No. I’ve been here ten years, and I don’t I’m like that. It just doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/31 "2009-09-16T02:16:10Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Uh, [already happened.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/24/MN8LSUUMF.DTL&type=printable) So I don’t know who you’d call the paving crew here. > > To recap, when a Democratic representative called President Bush a liar from the House floor in 2007, he faced a censure resolution himself. He apologized - in this case to the House and not to the President. The Democratic Party ensured that the motion was tabled. > > Frankly, I don’t think censure was appropriate here either - admonishment would have served well. Save censure for the important stuff. I said in another thread that McCarthy was censured - do we want to equate this little tiff to what he did? Totally different. On the house floor, during the debate over a resolution (if my understanding is correct), Rep Stark said that Republicans supported sending U.S. soldiers to Iraq “to get blown up for the president’s amusement.” This is what transpired according to your link. This is, IMHO, despicable, but is not the same as yelling out a comment during a presidential address. I think former President George Bush was many thing, but he was not the monster Stark was trying to paint him as. Regardless, yelling out catcalls when the president has the floor is much worse. These events are not even close. Regardless, I do think this is over and should be dropped. Waste of time, he apologized to the President and I am willing to let it go (I will bring it up during Wilson’s reelection). ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/32 "2009-09-16T02:16:58Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > No. I’ve been here ten years, and I don’t I’m like that. > > It just doesn’t matter. Ok. So if a Democrat, let’s say Barney Frank, calls out, “You lie!” to a Republican President during an address to a Joint Session of Congress, it just doesn’t matter? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/33 "2009-09-16T02:34:51Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Perhaps you could explain to me in what way (and this may take small words) the House of Representatives debating the actions of one of its members is a waste of time and money? I suppose if one of those members was Hannibal Lecter, or misappropriating funds than it would not be a waste of time. So, this is not a general stance, but a specific one to these particular circumstances. It’s a waste of time in this case because it serves no useful purpose. Wilson seems to admit that he crossed the line. He immediately apologized to Obama and Obama accepted. Obama classified his apology as unreserved. By my reckoning, it ends there. It ends there because there is nothing to be gained by pushing it further. To do so, and attempt to coerce another apology with a threat changes the dynamic of the incident from simply bad behavior by a politician into partisan politics and power dynamics. Now Republicans can claim persecution, that mountains are being made out of molehills. And, partisan politics is like baseball. If your pitcher beans a player, than ours will bean one of yours. So, before you throw pitches at heads you ask if it’s worth throwing pitches at heads? Power will swing the other way at some point. Energy and emotion devoted to this is destructive not constructive. Rotary has something called the Four Way Test, which is a test of the things Rotarians say and do: 1. Is it the truth? 2. Is it fair to all concerned? 3. Will it build good will and better friendships? 4. Is it beneficial to all concerned? Kinda hokey, but not a bad standard, the censure does not pass the test, therefore it is not worth doing. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/34 "2009-09-16T02:40:07Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > It’s a waste of time in this case because it serves no useful purpose. Certainly it serves a useful purpose. One would hope that an expression of disapproval (Once again, not censure! Where do y’all keep getting “censure” from", I wonder.) will keep a Democrat from saying, “You lie!” to a Republican president. Seriously, **Scylla** , are you high? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/35 "2009-09-16T02:40:26Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Ok. So if a Democrat, let’s say Barney Frank, calls out, “You lie!” to a Republican President during an address to a Joint Session of Congress, it just doesn’t matter? The venue is an exacerbating circumstance, that is mitigated, IMO by his prompt and unreserved apology the next day which was accepted by Obama. Seeing as the apology was offered and accepted, I see nothing to be gained by attempting to force another apology with a threat. I’ve answered your questions. Perhaps you can explain to me what good you expect to come out of drawing this thing out. There should be tangible positive. What is it? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/36 "2009-09-16T02:44:09Z")
> [@Hamadryad](#): > > a) THEN WHY DID YOU POST? Because I chose to. Why do you care? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/37 "2009-09-16T02:45:26Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’ve answered your questions. Perhaps you can explain to me what good you expect to come out of drawing this thing out. > > There should be tangible positive. What is it? See my post above. So, as I read your response, it is, in fact, OK for a Democrat to do what Wilson did. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/38 "2009-09-16T02:50:59Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Seriously, **Scylla** , are you high? Do you really think it’s acceptable to say “you high?” to a Republican resident? ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/39 "2009-09-16T02:51:08Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Now Republicans can claim persecution, that mountains are being made out of molehills. \ > > Kinda hokey, but not a bad standard, the censure does not pass the test, therefore it is not worth doing. It was a motion of disapproval, not a censure. A minute difference, but a difference nonetheless (particularly to anyone comparing his actions and their outcome to that of Joseph McCarthy). And a motion of disapproval does not a mountain make. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you can explain to me what good you expect to come out of drawing this thing out. While not directed at me, hopefully this incident and the attention that it has attracted will serve as a deterrent to anyone of any party from acting similarly. Most importantly, this, along with the other recent pop culture events, has started a discussion about civility and narcissism in some quarters. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/40 "2009-09-16T02:52:55Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Certainly it serves a useful purpose. One would hope that an expression of disapproval (Once again, not censure! Where do y’all keep getting “censure” from", I wonder.) will keep a Democrat from saying, “You lie!” to a Republican president. Seriously, **Scylla** , are you high? [/QUOTE] I get it from the definition of “censure” which is “harsh criticism or disapproval.” However, if this bothers you I will type out “expression of disapproval” in the interests of good will and fellowship and avoiding a semantic debate. I hope that’s not unreasonable. As for your second point, I doubt it will stop it, nor should it. Free speech and all. Probably what you mean is that you hope it will stop it at innapropriate times such as during joint sessions. I agree though, that stopping such outbursts is laudable. However, I don’t think that an expression of disapproval and making a further big deal about will do that. The Republicans will feel persecuted and dig in. The Democrats will make as mileage about it as possible, and then at some point in the future a Democrat will do it (you bean my player, I bean yours) to start the whole thing up again with cries of hypocrisy on both sides and what have you. So no. It doesn’t matter. Apology offered and accepted. Everybody realizes it’s wrong, and agrees to play nice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235.md?page=3)