# House Republicans stand stalwart for Wilson **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235 "2009-09-15T21:32:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/101 "2009-09-17T16:01:40Z")
I might as well, but that first sentence appears to be at odds with the rest of the post. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/102 "2009-09-17T16:25:07Z")
Yeah, I’m not sure I understand that part… and I don’t agree anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/103 "2009-09-17T16:40:37Z")
I think those are meant to be questions. Not sure why there are no question marks, though. If you don’t think the House should vote their disapproval because it is a wste time, ok, fine, I am not really going to argue that. But if you try to argue that the actions of Representative Wilson do not warrant a disapproval, then I take issue. And yes he apologized to the President, but as the OP noted, he also owed the House an apology, which he has not given. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/104 "2009-09-17T18:29:22Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I got the “prompt and unreserved” from a soundbite of Obama saying he accepted the apology. > > Are you saying Obama lied? What else was he going to say? He had no choice since he actually has manners. Wilson apologized like a kid whose parents make him apologize to his sister. I wonder if he crossed his fingers while he did it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/105 "2009-09-17T18:30:39Z")
Also, he apologized only for being rude, not for being wrong. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/106 "2009-09-17T19:05:31Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [Okay.](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/19/starks-remarks-set-off-gop-lawmakers/) > > > [@](#): > > > > On the House floor on Thursday, Mr. Stark attacked Mr. Bush in statements that at some points were more angry than coherent. > > > > “I’m just amazed that the Republicans are worried that we can’t pay for insuring an additional 10 million children,” he said. “They sure don’t care about finding $200 billion to fight the illegal war in Iraq. Where are you going to get that money? You are going to tell us lies like you’re telling us today? Is that how you’re going to fund the war? You don’t have money to fund the war or children, but you’re going to spend it to blow up innocent people if we can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the President’s amusement.” > > > > At another point, he referenced, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. “In his previous job as an actor, our governor used to play make-believe and blow things up. Well, the Republicans in Congress are playing make-believe today with children’s lives. They claim that they can’t afford health care. They say the bill will socialize medicine.” > > > > He added later: “The truth is the CHIP program allows states to cover children primarily through private health care plans. But President Bush’s statements about children’s health shouldn’t be taken any more seriously than his lies about the war in Iraq. The truth is that Bush just likes to blow things up in Iraq, in the United States, and in Congress. I urge my colleagues to vote to override his veto.” Thank you. I don’t personally find much to call “incoherent” in the remarks, so boo to the NYT for not doing a better job of quote-mining to back up the characterization, but he did clearly reference “[the President’s] lies”, so you’ve provided what I asked for. Point of order, though: when speaking of the president’s _actual_ lies on the floor of the House, what’s the protocol for characterizing them without running afoul of the decorum rules? An uncomfortable, mumbling, clearing of the throat? I guess whatever it is, Representative Stark should have done that instead. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/107 "2009-09-17T19:48:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Also, he apologized only for being rude, not for being wrong. Well, it’s not his fault that he’s wrong. He _is_ a Republican, after all. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/108 "2009-09-17T22:37:19Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Please refrain. No warning issued. My apologies to the board. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/109 "2009-09-17T22:40:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I might as well, but that first sentence appears to be at odds with the rest of the post. Deadpan doesn’t come across very well on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/110 "2009-09-17T22:47:46Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > My apologies to the board. Do I get an apology? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/111 "2009-09-17T22:53:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Do I get an apology? “With apologies to Ontarians, and Albertans, but with no apologies at all to Morris Dancers…” ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/112 "2009-09-17T23:01:47Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > This appears to be an urban legend - certainly [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/salute.asp) thinks it is. And the entirety of my active duty was during the Clinton presidency, and we were always instructed to salute him. > > I’m sure you would be happy to either give me more information supporting your charge or immediately dropping it, given this. I was told by our former foster son, who was in the Corps in 1993-4, that he was told this by a Gunny. Probably I should have checked it out before raising it, but I had no reason to doubt it. Thanks for the response, and consider the issue dropped as based in presumably false information. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/113 "2009-09-17T23:10:16Z")
Well then… The difference between you and Wilson (besides him being an important person serving in an august body and you being an insignificant anonymous loser on a message board) is that when Wilson made his error he first apologized to the primary party he had personally wronged. He didn’t make some abstract apology to a generic group. I guess Wilson understands that an apology is personal. An apology to a Country, a group, a board, or Congress is without meaning because none of those things has feelings. None of those things is a person. None of those things can accept or appreciate it. Because there is nothing personal about it, no actual acceptance of responsibility to a wronged party, such a gesture is empty and ultimately cowardly if it excludes the person wronged. You don’t apologize to things, you idiot. You apologize to people. So, besides being important and significant… compared to you, Wilson also possesses more class as he takes responsibility to the person he wronged, and you don’t. That being the case, it’s ironic that you’re attempting to chastise a man who demonstrates a much higher level of class and respect than you in the very thing you wish to chastise him for. It’s rare that someone will immediately demonstrate such a degree of hypocrisy as to immolate their thesis in an attempt to defend it, but you accomplished the task. Nor, is this the first time. You’re turning into a hater, dude. You’re hating over libertarian. You’re all intolerant and vicious. You used to be a pretty balanced guy. Now look at you. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/114 "2009-09-17T23:15:45Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I was told by our former foster son, who was in the Corps in 1993-4, that he was told this by a Gunny. Probably I should have checked it out before raising it, but I had no reason to doubt it. Thanks for the response, and consider the issue dropped as based in presumably false information. Why was he in the Corps for such a short period? Did they kick him out for not saluting the President? I keed, I keed.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/115 "2009-09-18T00:27:57Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Because there is nothing personal about it, no actual acceptance of responsibility to a wronged party, such a gesture is empty and ultimately cowardly if it excludes the person wronged. But I didn’t wrong you; I wronged the board. It’s perfectly acceptable here (in the Pit) for me to call you dishonest, a liar, a hypocrite, many other terms that are personal insults (or would be if they did not fit you). “Fuck off” is not a personal insult. It’s simply a forbidden term. By using it, I broke the rules of the SDMB and set a bad example for other posters. Hence the preciseness of my apology. Regards, Frank ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/116 "2009-09-18T00:32:10Z")
I think it’s wonderful how Joe Wilson is [staying true to his illustrious predecessors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Brooks). ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/117 "2009-09-18T00:42:22Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > “Fuck off” is not a personal insult. It’s simply a forbidden term. By using it, I broke the rules of the SDMB and set a bad example for other posters. Hence the preciseness of my It is forbidden, according to Ed because it is to egregious a personal insult to throw at another poster. Your argument is incredibly stupid. Consider: “Murder is not a personal crime. It is simply a forbidden action. By doing it one breaks the rules of society and sets a bad example for other people.” So, by your logic you shouldn’t take it personally if somebody tries to murder you. * * * Telling somebody to “fuck off” is not a personal insult? How stunningly stupid can you possibly be? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/118 "2009-09-18T01:15:25Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > I think it’s wonderful how Joe Wilson is [staying true to his illustrious predecessors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Brooks). You do realize Preston Brooks was a Democrat, right? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/119 "2009-09-18T01:21:00Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > You do realize Preston Brooks was a Democrat, right? Because the Democratic party nowadays is exactly identical to the Democratic party of the pre-Civil War era. Riiiiiight. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235/120 "2009-09-18T01:23:59Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > Because the Democratic party nowadays is exactly identical to the Democratic party of the pre-Civil War era. Riiiiiight. :rolleyes: Well, if this is the case, perhaps you should keep your yap shut about “illustrious predecessors”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-republicans-stand-stalwart-for-wilson/510235.md?page=7)