# "House to start an impeachment inquiry into President Biden" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 12, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995 "2023-09-12T16:17:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/181 "2023-09-17T21:44:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Other than three IRS whistleblowers, two former business partners testifying under oath that Joe Biden was what they were selling, a ream of bank records showing suspicious transactions, timelines where people seem to get favors from the government after money flows to the Biden family, apparently multiple open investigations by the IRS into suspicious monet transfers along with 170 suspicious activity reports, reams of money being transferred to the Biden family through shell corporations… Please don’t repeat these lies from Comer and his lying committee (other than the existence of supposed witnesses/whistleblowers who brought zero actual evidence). These are non-factual statements. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/182 "2023-09-17T21:45:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Thanks for the basic lesson in law. It’s a good thing I never said he was guilty. I posted thr evidence that the house has that warrants an INVESTIGTION to establish guilt or innocense. I’m sure you kmow enough law to understand the difference between evidence needed to start an investigation and the evidence needed to convict someone of a crime. Right. Don’t forget about my allegation of you being a serial killer with a trove of bodies buried not far from your house. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Impeachment is not a criminal proceeding, it’s a political one. The house can impeach a politician for almost anything. Which doesn’t alter – in the least – the fact that they shouldn’t bring a political process – one explicitly reserved for “high crimes and misdemeanors --” based solely on bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/183 "2023-09-17T21:47:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You do know that indictments come after the investigation, right? No one has pleaded guilty to any of the tax info/influence peddling, because no indictments have been laid down, because there is an open investigation. How is this hard? Okay, change the subject with a non sequitur. I suppose that’s the only way to answer me. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I have been very clear that we don’t know if there are any crimes yet, because all this is being provided as evidence sufficient to open an investigation. Yo7 aren’t really reading what I’m posting, have you? Did you bother to click on any of the links I provided? Again, Sam, because you’re clearly struggling. I pointed out that only one Biden family member has been shown to be a criminal. You were trying to counter me. You’re trying to gish gallop here. If your links aren’t showing clear crimes they’re as relevant to what I was saying as a chicken salad recipe. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/184 "2023-09-17T21:57:18Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Thanks for the basic lesson in law. It’s a good thing I never said he was guilty. I posted thr evidence that the house has that warrants an INVESTIGTION to establish guilt or innocense. You know who conducts investigations? The DOJ. Sometimes with a special counsel. Oh, yeah – there already is one! Name of David Weiss. Who was already investigating Hunter Biden for nearly 5 years before asking for – and receiving – special counsel status. What he has _evidence_ for is lying on an application to obtain a firearm and failing to pay his taxes. For which _Hunter Biden_ (not Joe Biden) has been charged and is being prosecuted. If you think Mr. Weiss would have ignored evidence that would lead to an impeachment of Joe Biden in the course of his investigations, then that’s just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/185 "2023-09-17T21:59:05Z")
This is getting beyond bizarre. I am not gish galloping, because I have been arguing one thing, along with heavy cites: That there is enough smoke to warrant an investigation. You’re the one doing all the tap-dancing here. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hunter made some money from foreign sources (which is legal, of course, barring criminal activity). No evidence that Joe had anything to do with it. > > Sam, please don’t spread these lies from Comer and his lying committee. You actually haven’t read the evidence, have tou? NINE Biden family members have been receiving large payments ($50,000 at a time), including Halle Biden, Joe Biden’s granddaughter. But I guess you can just claim that all Republicans are lying liars who lie, and that the actual bank records (copies in the linked documents) are forgeries or something, and that the IRS agents who have open investigations based on this data are Republican stooges, and that Hunter Biden’s partners who say that Joe Biden WAS the product they were selling were paid off by Republicans or something. That’s one way to maintain epistemic closure. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/186 "2023-09-17T22:00:22Z")
What’s the crime, Sam? What quid pro quo occurred, allegedly? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/187 "2023-09-17T22:00:32Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Right. Don’t forget about my allegation of you being a serial killer with a trove of bodies buried not far from your house. You should open an investigation and check. If three people came forward saying they saw me digging a big hole where the bodies were, I would expect you to. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/188 "2023-09-17T22:00:43Z")
And by the way, 30+ Republicans sent a letter to the DOJ asking for Weiss to be _appointed_ Special Counsel. Until they didn’t want that any longer, anyway – when Garland _did_ appoint him Special Counsel. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/189 "2023-09-17T22:03:16Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If three people came forward saying they saw me digging a big hole where the bodies were, I would expect you to. But they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/190 "2023-09-17T22:05:05Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > NINE Biden family members have been receiving large payments ($50,000 at a time), including Halle Biden, Joe Biden’s granddaughter. Let’s start here: Hallie (not Halle – there is no “Halle Biden”) is Beau’s widow, so Joe’s former daughter-in-law. I couldn’t find anything (not even from crazy right wing sources!) about a granddaughter getting payments. So this is yet another false assertion. Other Bidens (including Hallie) did receive some significant payments from various overseas sources at various times. None of them are linked to any wrongdoing or to Joe himself. The vast majority of foreign payments went to Hunter, who did lots of business overseas. > [@](#): > > But I guess you can just claim that all Republicans are lying liars who lie, and that the actual bank records (copies in the linked documents) are forgeries or something, and that the IRS agents who have open investigations based on this data are Republican stooges, and that Hunter Biden’s partners who say that Joe Biden WAS the product they were selling were paid off by Republicans or something. That’s one way to maintain epistemic closure. The bank records don’t actually support Comer’s claims. He’s lying about them, like he’s lying about everything else (except for the existence of some non-criminal payments, most of which went to Hunter). You repeated the committee’s lies as if it was factual information, when it’s political bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/191 "2023-09-17T22:05:31Z")
“Biden family members” are not Joe. Comer does this all of the time, trying to imply that some payment received by a member of Joe’s family somehow implicates Joe. None of these activities, legal or not, have been tied to Joe - you know, the guy actually under an impeachment investigation. In this country, prosecutors are not supposed to go on fishing expeditions. Some probable cause needs to be shown. All Comer has given us is a string of not-illegal events that have not been connected to Joe that crafts an implication of malfeasance but offers no evidence that an illegal act occurred. Impeachment by innuendo. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/192 "2023-09-17T22:05:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is getting beyond bizarre. I am not gish galloping, because I have been arguing one thing, along with heavy cites: That there is enough smoke to warrant an investigation. You’re the one doing all the tap-dancing here. You are trying to argue against something I never said. You replied to me saying there was only one Biden family member shown to be a criminal, so the only things that would be relevant would be addressing that. I’ve even said that I don’t mind the investigation. 😆 This was literally in one post you replied to: > [@Atamasama](#): > > I welcome the investigation, in the sense that I don’t think it’s inappropriate at all. So again, what are you even talking about?! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/193 "2023-09-17T22:12:03Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You know who conducts investigations? The DOJ. Sometimes with a special counsel. Oh, yeah – there already is one! Name of David Weiss. Who was already investigating Hunter Biden for nearly 5 years before asking for – and receiving – special counsel status. Oh, come on. You’ve never heard of the House Oversight Committee? Or Ways and Means? They conduct investigations _all the time_. Anyway, we aren’t talking a out the gun charge. That is a completely separate thing, > [@](#): > > What he has _evidence_ for is lying on an application to obtain a firearm and failing to pay his taxes. For which _Hunter Biden_ (not Joe Biden) has been charged and is being prosecuted. > > If you think Mr. Weiss would have ignored evidence that would lead to an impeachment of Joe Biden in the course of his investigations, then that’s just sad. Three whistlblowers from the IRS have said that that is exactly what happened. DOJ was protecting Biden by slow-walking investigations, and by interfering in IRS investigations any time they took them near Joe. [https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-irs-whistleblowers-expose-how-bidens-were-treated-differently/](https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-irs-whistleblowers-expose-how-bidens-were-treated-differently%EF%BF%BC/) > [@](#): > > **IRS whistleblowers provided evidence of the Justice Department’s politicization and misconduct in the Biden criminal investigation.** > > - Joe Ziegler, a 13-year Special Agent with the IRS, testified how the Bidens were given preferential treatment during the Justice Department’s investigation: > - “In the Criminal Tax Manual, Chapter 10, found on the Department of Justice website, Tax Division policy states, ‘Cases involving individuals who fail to fil tax returns or pat a tax but who also commit acts of evasion or obstruction should be charged as felonies to avoid inequitable treatment.’ In early August of 2022, federal prosecutors from the Department of Justice Tax Division drafted a 99-page memorandum. This memorandum recommended approving felony and misdemeanor charges for the 2017m 2018, and 2019 tax years. _ **If the Delaware U.S. Attorney David Weiss followed DOJ policy as he stated in his most recent letter, Hunter Biden should have been charged with a tax felony, and not only the tax misdemeanor charge. We need to treat each taxpayer equally under the law.** _” > - “The assigned prosecutors did not follow the ordinary process, slow walked the investigation and put in place unnecessary approvals and roadblocks from effectively and efficiently investigating the case.” Ziegler noted that Assistant U.S. Attorney Lesley Wolf and DOJ-Tax Attorney Mark Daly tipped off Hunter Biden’s attorneys about his storage unit, which potentially allowed evidence to be _ **“destroyed, manipulated or concealed.”** _ He was also prevented from interviewing and getting records from Hunter Biden’s adult children and members of the Biden Family, calling this _ **“abnormal and a deviation from normal procedure.”** _ > - IRS Supervisory Special Agent Gary Shapley testified, “I am here to tell you that the Delaware USAO and Department of Justice handling of the Hunter Biden tax investigation was very different from any other case in my 14 years at the IRS. In this country, we believe in the rule of law, and that applies to everyone. _ **There should not be a two-track justice system depending on who you are and who you’re connected to. Yet in this case, there was. At every stage decisions were made that benefited the subject of the investigation.** _” He noted how evidence, including the laptop, was concealed from investigators. The Delaware U.S. Attorney’s office also slow-walked interviews, serving document requests, and pursuing physical search warrants. > > **IRS whistleblowers confirm they were not allowed to follow evidence that could have led to Joe Biden.** > > - Supervisory Special Agent Shapley testified, “After an electronic search warrant on Hunter Biden’s Apple iCloud led us to WhatsApp messages with several CEFC China Energy executives where he claimed to be sitting and discussing business with his father Joe Biden, we sought permission to follow up on the information in the messages. Prosecutors would not allow it. Around this time, a search warrant for the guest house at the Bidens’ Delaware residence was being planned. Yet, despite agreeing that there was probable cause, AUSA Wolf cited the ‘optics’ of executing a search warrant at President Biden’s resident as the deciding factor for not allowing it to be completed … _ **AUSA Wolf also told investigators they should not ask about President Biden during witness interviews even when the business communications of his son clearly referenced him.** _” > > - Special Agent Ziegler stated, “I would like to point out that one of the [WhatsApp] messages shown on Exhibit 11 on 8/3/2017 shown toward the end of the conversation, Director Zhang says that he wants to convey ‘his best regards to you, Jim, and VP.’ _ **This may be direct contradiction to what President Biden was saying about not being involved in Hunter’s overseas business dealings.** _” > > - When asked about the FBI’s FD-1023 form alleging Joe Biden was involved in a bribery scheme with a Burisma executive, both Shapley and Ziegler confirmed they never had seen or heard of it during the investigation. Ziegler went on to say that they had potentially corroborating evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/194 "2023-09-17T22:13:19Z")
Then refer it to the DOJ and let them investigate the matter. That’s how this is done. ETA: It’s your side that continues to conflate Hunter Biden’s issues as a basis to impeach Joe Biden, so while I agree they are separate issues, you need to start treating them as that, too. You’re not. It was you who introduced Hunter Biden’s laptop into the discussion yet again without showing any evidence that one thing had something to do with the other. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/195 "2023-09-17T22:13:24Z")
You are once again repeating the lies of a dishonest committee. No one should treat that lying committee as anything other than a GOP smear campaign in action. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/196 "2023-09-17T22:13:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > his sudden withdrawal from Afghanistan That would be the “sudden withdrawal from Afghanistan” that . . . _who was it again, oh yeah,_ Donald Trump committed the United States to. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/197 "2023-09-17T22:17:09Z")
**Sam\_Stone** , Could you do me a favor and summarize your main argument? I’m having trouble grasping your position. For example, “I think U.S. House of Representatives is justified in opening an impeachment inquiry into President Biden because X, Y, and Z.” ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/198 "2023-09-17T22:17:55Z")
I just pulled that out not as an accusation, but as an example of why it is dangerous to leave someone in oower if they have demonstrated a willingness to sell that power for personal gain. I have no evidence that Joe did that, and just used the example to disprove the notion that if he was corrupt as vice president that shouldn’t be impeachable now. In other words, IF it was shown that the office of the Vice,President was for sale when Biden was in it, it should be disqulifying for his presidency now. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/199 "2023-09-17T22:18:38Z")
- _“[T]he FD-1023 is the form our special agents use to record raw, unverified reporting from confidential human sources (CHSs). FD-1023s merely document that information; they do not reflect the conclusions of investigators based on a fuller context or understanding. Recording this information does not validate it, establish its credibility, or weigh it against other information known or developed by the FBI in our investigations.”_ - That WhatsApp message is – at this point – unsubstantiated. More importantly, it is _alleged_ to have been created in 2017. Joe Biden was a _private citizen_ for about 95% of the year 2017, his Vice-Presidency having ended on January 20, 2017. - The IRS ‘whistleblowers’ testified as to what they thought and felt was going on. It’s uncorroborated by their peers who greatly outnumber them. See the problem here? This IS a Gish Gallop, and it’s _really_ tiresome, Sam. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995/200 "2023-09-17T22:19:18Z")
Sam, every one of the committee’s claims turns out to be bullshit when actually looked at in detail (other than Hunter and a few others doing business overseas). There’s no point in linking to the committee’s memos and statements – they’re always lies. Why not show the actual records themselves, and be specific? Find the stuff in the bank records, or whatever, that you actually think shows evidence that could link Joe to wrongdoing. That would actually be an interesting and legitimate thing to look at, unlike the repeated lies from the committee. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-to-start-an-impeachment-inquiry-into-president-biden/989995.md?page=11)