# Houston to convert school libraries into "discipline centers"! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710 "2023-07-28T01:27:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/1 "2023-07-28T01:27:25Z")
THIS IS **BARBARIC!!!** BARBARIC!! [We are entering a new Dark Age.](https://www.rawstory.com/houston-schools-eliminate-librarians-and-repurpose-libraries-into-discipline-centers-2662501670/) > The Houston Independent School District, the largest in [**Texas**](https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/?s=Texas) and the eighth-largest in the United States, will eliminate librarian positions in 28 schools and turn libraries into what are being called “discipline centers,” according to [Click2Houston](https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2023/07/26/hisd-to-eliminate-librarians-turn-libraries-into-discipline-centers-at-28-campuses/). ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/2 "2023-07-28T01:36:58Z")
Here’s [another link](https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/education-news/hisd/2023/07/26/457933/city-leaders-criticize-houston-isd-superintendent-mike-miles-over-plans-for-school-libraries/) that goes into further horrifying details of all the ways in which this HISD superintendent plans to eviscerate education in Texas. Not going to pick out any quotes because you have to read about all of the things in the works to get the full nauseating flavor of this. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/3 "2023-07-28T01:49:28Z")
Libraries are sacred! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/4 "2023-07-28T01:55:03Z")
Not to the spiritual heirs of the people who burned down the Library of Alexandria. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/5 "2023-07-28T02:25:08Z")
I hope colleges and employers start viewing HS diplomas and college degrees from states like Florida and Texas as worthless. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/6 "2023-07-28T02:42:56Z")
My brother and his wife, who were childless at the time, lived briefly in Houston, TX in the late 1990s. As they had in their previous residence, Kansas City, they met TEACHERS who homeschooled, and knew these were not cities where they wanted to raise their kids. And back then, HSing was largely a cuckoo lunatic fringe thing - something they ended up doing at different times with both of their children because of health issues. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/7 "2023-07-28T02:45:11Z")
So, they’re going to turn the library into the in-school suspension room. What is wrong there that this many children are needing that service? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/8 "2023-07-28T02:55:11Z")
I have family members who are teachers in Houston and they’re leaving teaching because they’re tired of putting up with bullshit like this. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/9 "2023-07-28T03:34:15Z")
To reiterate a point made in the article – the Houston Independent School District was recently taken over by the state. Previously governed by locally elected trustees, the district is now governed by state-appointed managers. This new superintendent was appointed by our state commissioner of education – who himself was appointed by and reports to the Governor. This is, essentially, Greg Abbott’s takeover of the largest school district in the state. I certainly won’t pretend that HISD was perfect before the takeover. The district has deeply entrenched problems and is failing to educate too many students (although I could point to plenty of school districts in red, rural counties that are equally failing). But this isn’t really aimed at fixing them. Rather, it’s part of a Texas Republican war against Harris County (Houston’s county) which keeps getting bluer and bluer. The Legislature also passed legislation recently to allow the Secretary of State (again, appointed by Abbott) to takeover elections in Harris County. The school takeover will allow Republicans to make Houston school kids the test lab for all sorts of right-wing educational theories. And like in a lab, if the test subjects don’t make it – oh well. That’s just part of the process. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/10 "2023-07-28T04:12:45Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > So, they’re going to turn the library into the in-school suspension room. What is wrong there that this many children are needing that service? You’ll have to _color_ me shocked that those administrators and teachers haven’t found something _dark_ in the students’ behavior. > [@flurb](#): > > The school takeover will allow Republicans to make Houston school kids the test lab for all sorts of right-wing educational theories. I thought the ~~far white~~ far right just hated theories. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/11 "2023-07-28T04:32:20Z")
Mike Miles was my superintendent for a year. He is a former Ranger and head of the schools system for military bases and he brought that military obey-me-or-else attitude to civilian school districts. He is is horribly anti-teacher. During the first day convocation he told all the teachers that we are the ones that get in the way of our students’ education. The district teachers could not start a union because he had spies and any teacher that talked about unionizing was fired the next day usually in front of the students. The year I was there, every first year teacher was non-renewed in violation of the contract. So to see that he is firing librarians and converting the rooms to discipline ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/12 "2023-07-28T04:53:33Z")
OMG! He fired @Saint_Cad in mid sentence! ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/13 "2023-07-28T05:26:13Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > colleges and employers start viewing HS diplomas and college degrees from states like Florida and Texas as worthless. That seems like blaming the victim. If I’m a kid raised in either state because my parents happen to live there, should I be penalized and my HS diploma dismissed due to a geographic characteristic out of my control? As to college - a few years ago my son was accepted at UT Austin, which families in the throes of the horror that is college admissions will know is an accomplishment (@MandaJo once posted that she knew of one or more instances where a kid was rejected by UT Austin and accepted at MIT - go figure). Our family subsequently visited and sat through all the attempts of UT Austin to win us over; I came away feeling like it was an AMAZING institution. While my son ultimately opted to go elsewhere, I have nothing but respect for the school. It’s not their fault they are in Texas. They have amazing programs for undergraduates focusing on physics or philosophy; probably in other areas too, for all I know. I’d really hate to see all that dismissed simply because Texas was the state within which those great things occurred. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/14 "2023-07-28T05:30:06Z")
I think DCinDC was being a bit sarcastic, but I could certainly imagine employers and colleges looking a little more closely at applicants from certain areas. Do they know how to spell basic words and put together a coherent sentence, among other things. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/15 "2023-07-28T06:18:54Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > That seems like blaming the victim. If I’m a kid raised in either state because my parents happen to live there, should I be penalized and my HS diploma dismissed due to a geographic characteristic out of my control? But what if the high school education is actually needed? Kids who through no fault of their own went to a bad high school still have to take remedial classes in college, often on their own dime. I guess they could give some sort of competency test, same as those colleges do. They could even tell you what will be on the test ahead of time, to give you time to try and learn it on your own. But, at the end of the day, if you don’t know what you need to know, I can’t see how they can hire you. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/16 "2023-07-28T07:07:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I guess they could give some sort of competency test, same as those colleges do. They could even tell you what will be on the test ahead of time, to give you time to try and learn it on your own. I’ve applied for jobs that gave you competency tests, and my college had something similar when I started there. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/17 "2023-07-28T07:11:14Z")
Just put “What was the cause of the Civil War?” on the university application form and that should solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/18 "2023-07-28T07:25:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “What was the cause of the Civil War?” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/SFwHQYDqf6c/hqdefault.jpg "Apu Explains the Civil War's Cause") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFwHQYDqf6c) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/19 "2023-07-28T09:09:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I guess they could give some sort of competency test, same as those colleges do. They could even tell you what will be on the test ahead of time, to give you time to try and learn it on your own. Isn’t this what the vast majority of American schools do anyway, regardless of where the applicants come from? I have heard that the secondary education system there is so uneven (broken?) that colleges and universities can’t trust or assess the worth of any given high school diploma, and so require applicants to take privately developed “standardized” tests. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710/20 "2023-07-28T11:30:15Z")
He left you guys and came to Dallas. It was a reign of terror. Practically on day one he walked into a school, didn’t like what he saw, and fired the principal–who had only been at the job 6 weeks. He openly said anyone in the classroom more than 5 years was probably a bad teacher. He fired a ton of custodians and cut the pau of the rest and moved almost all of them to night shift–just mean shit like that. He created a horrible culture of fear and shame. It has taken years to recover. I cannot emphasize enough how bad it was. He hates teachers. Its like he thinks only a lazy, stupid person would want to be a teacher. But the school board member who loved him is now in charge of the TEA, our state education agency. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houston-to-convert-school-libraries-into-discipline-centers/987710.md?page=2)