# Houthi Rebels and Shipping **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 11, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980 "2024-01-11T23:15:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/1 "2024-01-11T23:15:16Z")
I haven’t seen a thread on this, but you’ve probably heard that the Iranian-backed Houthi rebels are attacking shipping in the Red Sea, standing in solidarity with the Palestinians. > **[Yemen's Houthis launch their largest Red Sea drone and missile attack, though...](https://apnews.com/article/yemen-houthi-rebels-red-sea-attacks-israel-f820b848eb76fa3ecc8056ca332cabae)** > > Yemen’s Houthi rebels have fired their largest-ever barrage of drones and missiles targeting shipping in the Red Sea, forcing the United States and British navies to shoot down the projectiles in a major naval engagement. So this has the US and others sending warships to the region, which is a perfectly reasonable and appropriate things to do, IMO. But today I read that France, Italy, Spain, China, and Saudi Arabia have refused to take part in the coalition. It seems to me that all those nations (and especially China) benefit from open sea lanes. Arguably, more than the US in this particular case, since I question what percent of US bound ships are going through the Red Sea. This is maybe one of those cases where the America First crowd has a point- we’re happy to do our part, but if you aren’t willing to help yourself I don’t think we should carry all the burden all the time. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/2 "2024-01-12T00:07:30Z")
Striking back hard is long overdue. US and British warships have done an amazing job shooting down drones But it’s time to send a stronger message. Btw anyone else reminded of the _hoochie coochie_ song when reporters say Houthis? 😉 Especially the reporter on ABC Nightly News. I know this is extremly serious because it could trigger a confrontation with Iran. They just sent a warship. > **[US and UK prepare to launch strikes against Houthis in Yemen](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/11/uk-us-strikes-houthi-yemen-red-sea)** > > Experts believe western allies most likely to target coastal sites in attempt to halt spate of Houthi attacks in Red Sea ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/3 "2024-01-12T00:40:05Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > But today I read that France, Italy, Spain, China, and Saudi Arabia have refused to take part in the coalition. > > It seems to me that all those nations (and especially China) benefit from open sea lanes. There is probably an element of tangled non-USA relationships in play there - those countries may have varying relationships or commitments with Iran, and to support something that opposes something Iran is supporting means your are going against them. France, in particular, is probably super-sensitive right now about their international image in advance of the Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/4 "2024-01-12T01:11:43Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > France, in particular, is probably super-sensitive right now about their international image in advance of the Olympics. And China, dependent on these exports? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/5 "2024-01-12T01:23:36Z")
the less china - and other countries do - the more US resources will be bound up there … so doing nothing and let the US do the heavy lifting makes sense for them. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/6 "2024-01-12T04:48:51Z")
China would loooove if the US got bogged down (more) in the ME fighting Iranian proxies. They wouldn’t do anything to reduce the chances of that. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/7 "2024-01-12T04:52:47Z")
Prepared to and did. > **[US, British militaries launch massive retaliatory strike against...](https://news.yahoo.com/us-british-militaries-launch-massive-235223034.html)** > > The U.S. and British militaries bombed more than a dozen sites used by the Iranian-backed Houthis in Yemen on Thursday, in a massive retaliatory strike using warship- and submarine-launched Tomahawk missiles and fighter jets, U.S. officials said. ... And various countries joined in a statement. > The governments of Australia, Bahrain, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand and South Korea joined the U.S. and U.K. in issuing a statement saying that while the aim is to de-escalate tensions and restore stability in the Red Sea, the allies won’t hesitate to defend lives and protect commerce in the critical waterway. A statement. What more do they have to do? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/8 "2024-01-12T04:57:07Z")
Many of those countries participated in the bombings, although how/to what extent isn’t known ATM. I’m sure the goal is to influence the retaliation calculus, but given the power projection capabilities of those parties I would guess it’s not super effective. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/9 "2024-01-12T10:33:38Z")
China has by far the most trade travelling through the Red Sea but abstained (along with Russia and two others) from the UN Security Council vote on Wednesday that demanded a halt to the Houthi attacks. [![](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/B1EC/production/_132284554_marine_traffic_red_sea_640-nc-2x-nc.png.webp) ](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/B1EC/production/_132284554_marine_traffic_red_sea_640-nc-2x-nc.png.webp) The resolution had the following line which called for > additional practical cooperation to prevent the Houthis from acquiring the materiel necessary to carry out further attacks This was the green line for the US/UK action. The Houthis and the Saudis are currently in a cease-fire so these event could impact that and China has been working to build that peace as a way to hold influence over the region. They literally don’t want to rock the boat. ---
**Author:** ![Chelonaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chelonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chelonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/10 "2024-01-12T10:57:53Z")
At least France and Italy have warships in the red sea as a response to the Houthi threat. As I understand it, they will cooperate with the US alliance, but will prioritize protection of ships under their own flag. So they’re not just freeloading. [https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/12/italy-sends-a-fremm-in-the-red-sea-to-protect-international-trade/](https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/12/italy-sends-a-fremm-in-the-red-sea-to-protect-international-trade/) [https://www.reuters.com/world/french-military-escorting-french-ships-through-red-sea-naval-commander-2024-01-11/](https://www.reuters.com/world/french-military-escorting-french-ships-through-red-sea-naval-commander-2024-01-11/) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/11 "2024-01-12T11:07:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Btw anyone else reminded of the _hoochie coochie_ song when reporters say Houthis? 😉 Especially the reporter on ABC Nightly News. I keep thinking of Hootie and the Blowfish. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/12 "2024-01-12T12:43:27Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > so doing nothing and let the US do the heavy lifting makes sense for them. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > China would loooove if the US got bogged down (more) in the ME fighting > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > A statement. What more do they have to do? I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. In China’s case it’s a cynical political move, and I wonder what would happen if we simply said we wouldn’t defend Chinese-origin ships. In the other cases, it’s once again saying “let the US handle it.” Which- and I am definitely a globalist- I’m kinda tired of. These missiles cost $1 million each. I wasn’t put on this earth to pay for another _rich_ country’s defense. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/13 "2024-01-12T13:00:01Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > [https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/B1EC/production/\_132284554\_marine\_traffic\_red\_sea\_640-nc-2x-nc.png.webp](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/B1EC/production/_132284554_marine_traffic_red_sea_640-nc-2x-nc.png.webp) So, from where I sit, not _all_ bad. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/14 "2024-01-12T13:15:48Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > But today I read that France, Italy, Spain, China, and Saudi Arabia have refused to take part in the coalition. > > It seems to me that all those nations (and especially China) benefit from open sea lanes. Arguably, more than the US in this particular case, since I question what percent of US bound ships are going through the Red Sea. Just because they aren’t taking part in a US led coalition does not mean they aren’t acting against the Houthis. Most of those countries have warships in the region, they’re just acting independently. > [@OldOlds](#): > > This is maybe one of those cases where the America First crowd has a point- we’re happy to do our part, but if you aren’t willing to help yourself I don’t think we should carry all the burden all the time. This is one of those cases where the America First people let their ego get to them by assuming that these coutnries are “either with us or against us”. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/15 "2024-01-12T13:24:04Z")
Personally, I’m fine with China not handling it. That would mean they have an effective blue-water navy capable of projecting power in the region, and I’d rather they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/16 "2024-01-12T13:26:34Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > That would mean they have an effective blue-water navy capable of projecting power in the region, and I’d rather they didn’t. I regret to inform you that China is very likely capable of operating a blue water navy that is certainly sufficient for engaging the Houthis out of their base in nearby Djibouti. > **[People's Liberation Army Support Base in Djibouti](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_Support_Base_in_Djibouti)** > > The People's Liberation Army Support Base in Djibouti is a military base operated by China's People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), located in Djibouti in the Horn of Africa. It is the PLAN's first overseas military base and was built at a cost of US$590 million. The facility is expected to significantly increase China's power projection in the Horn of Africa and the Indian Ocean, as well as the PLAN's blue water capabilities. > The People's Liberation Army Navy has used the base to conduct ant... ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/17 "2024-01-12T13:29:32Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I regret to inform you that China is very likely capable of operating a blue water navy that is certainly sufficient for engaging the Houthis out of their base in nearby Djibouti. Oh it’s a nice big shiny base, but what warships do they actually have stationed there? ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/18 "2024-01-12T13:32:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This is one of those cases where the America First people let their ego get to them by assuming that these coutnries are “either with us or against us”. I take issue with that. I don’t think they’re “with us or against us” but you can’t dispute that the US carries more of the burden on these things than anyone else. And then suffers the consequences when something unpleasant happens. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/19 "2024-01-12T13:32:24Z")
[Meanwhile, the Democratic Socialists of America declares solidarity with the Houthis.](https://international.dsausa.org/yemen-solidarity/) [As a reminder, the Houthis restored slavery in Yemen](https://english.aawsat.com/home/article/1810456/exclusive-houthis-restore-slavery-yemen) and have [attacked civilian ships](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/13/yemen-houthis-attack-civilian-ships) all the while claiming that they’re somehow doing it for Palestine. You know, just in case you thought this couldn’t get any stupider, on the part of the DSA, or more cynical, on the part of the Houthis. [Possibly better source on slavery.](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/yemen-ethiopia-women-forced-houthis-stc-sexual-slavery) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980/20 "2024-01-12T13:43:53Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > Oh it’s a nice big shiny base, but what warships do they actually have stationed there? The 45th fleet, from what I understand. The ship that gets main billing is this one: > **[Chinese destroyer Ürümqi](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_destroyer_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi)** > > Ürümqi (118) is a Type 052D destroyer of the People's Liberation Army Navy. She was commissioned on 5 January 2018. > The basic ship type and layout of the Type 052D guided-missile destroyer is the same as that of the Type 052C destroyer, but compared to the earlier Type 052C destroyer, the Type 052D superstructure has a larger inclination angle and provides better stealth performance. At the same time, the 052C helicopter hangar is located The left side of the hull axis was changed to the center ... Seems to be capable enough (not for fighting Americans, but certainly for fighting Houthis). It’s got guided missiles for striking inland targets, lots of anti-missile defenses which it could use to protect escorted ships, and a helicopter. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/houthi-rebels-and-shipping/995980.md?page=2)