# Hovering aircraft **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461 "2002-09-14T23:00:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/1 "2002-09-14T23:00:03Z")
So I was at work today which is right across the street from an airport. I happened to be outside and noticed that a nearby airplane seemed exceptionaly loud. I walked to a different location to get a better view and noticed that it was hovering above the runway. It eventually landed (it landed like an airplane (as opposed to straight down) but took very little distance). A few minutes later it took off again and started to hover, it did a couple of very odd menuevers(sp?) it almost looked like a car fishtailing, very strange. So does anybody know what type of plane this is. I’ve looked around and can’t find it in the internet but I’ll keep trying. Before anyone asks, it was NOT a helicopter/Osprey of any sort. It looked like any other military plane (kinda like a very big fighter jet, from the distance I was at) except for the sides under the wings. It looked like it had flaps that opened downward (presumebly to blow air downward). Any ideas? Anyone seen one? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/2 "2002-09-14T23:04:58Z")
Most likely a Harrier. But more detail, please. Jet or propellor? Military or civilian? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/3 "2002-09-14T23:08:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joey P \* > **So I was at work today which is right across the street from an airport. I happened to be outside and noticed that a nearby airplane seemed exceptionaly loud. I walked to a different location to get a better view and noticed that it was hovering above the runway. It eventually landed (it landed like an airplane (as opposed to straight down) but took very little distance). A few minutes later it took off again and started to hover, it did a couple of very odd menuevers(sp?) it almost looked like a car fishtailing, very strange. So does anybody know what type of plane this is. …** If it wasn’t an Osprey, the only other plane I know of that hovers is the[British Harrier.](http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/attack/harrier/index.shtml) Our Marines also use these. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/4 "2002-09-14T23:09:19Z")
Jet, Military, I looked at the Harrier before, it just doesn’t look quite right, but that’s they “type/style” of plane. I suppose it could just be an older or newer version though. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/5 "2002-09-15T00:24:43Z")
The Harrier is the only V/TOL jet in service right now, so that had to be it. Although in a few years it could be one of the next-generation fighters, which will have the ability to hover. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/6 "2002-09-15T01:13:42Z")
The Harrier would be my best guess too, unless you’re likely to have Yakovlev Yak-38 Forgers in your area. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/7 "2002-09-15T01:15:05Z")
Look [closer](http://www.defenselink.mil/photos/Jul1997/970620-N-9354D-005.jpg). It was prolly a Harrier. Airshow nearby this weekend? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/8 "2002-09-15T01:16:29Z")
If some collector has a privately owned Yak 38 in flying condition, possibly but unlikely one of those. JoeyP, do google image searches for “Harrier” and “Yak 38”. Lots of pics. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/9 "2002-09-15T01:38:22Z")
OK, now who was the standup comedian who commented on watching a Harrier and had a line like “Leave it to the British to come up with a jet that curtseys.”? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/10 "2002-09-15T01:38:22Z")
Here is a [Yak-38 link](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/yak-38.htm) for comparison. I am no plane expert but that page lists the AV-8B Harrier II,Super Etendard, Fantan A, and Mirage F1 as “similar aircraft”. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/11 "2002-09-15T01:43:59Z")
Yes, but none of those are V/STOL barring the Harrier. **Joey P** , any of these look familiar? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/12 "2002-09-15T02:33:40Z")
I guess it must have been a Harrier, the distance must have skewed my perception. Thanks for the links. So it is really that blow gun type thing in the side (right above the missile in the pic) that keeps it afloat? If so what keeps the Yak in the air? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/13 "2002-09-15T03:13:20Z")
The Harrier has two main vectorable thrust vents, from 0 deg (backward pointing) to just barely forward, so it can back up. That “blow gun type thing” next to the underwing auxilliary fuel tank is that vectorable vent. The missile is the blue thing toward the end of the wing. That thrust (another vent is obviously on the other side) provides the lift for hover. When it transitions from hover to forward flight, those vents swing backward. There are also vents near the wingtips that provide stability. I lived for six months directly under the flight deck of the USS Saipan, LHA-2. Right under where the Harriers tested the engines by starting a hover off the deck before they took off. They are loud. The Yak has two seperate lift jets, vertically mounted just behind the cockpit, ([below the white flag](http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/yak-38-01.jpg)) for takeoff and landing. It has another flight engine (turbo jet) with vectoring nozzles, similar to the Harrier’s. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/14 "2002-09-15T03:13:54Z")
Blow gun thing? What keeps the Harrier afloat is a Rolls Royce Pagasus engine. It has four vectorable thrust nozzles that come out the side of the fuselage rather the rear. The nozzles rotate to aim aft or downward. Since conventional flight controls don’t work at zero or low airspeed bleed air from the engine’s compressor section is piped to the wingtips and tail to provide reaction controls like a spacecraft. Don’t know much about the Yak but that it uses an auxiliary engine for vertical flight. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/15 "2002-09-15T03:21:48Z")
**Padeye** has it right, there are four main nozzles, not two. They go from zero to 98.5 degrees (8.5 deg forward). ---
**Author:** ![buckgully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@buckgully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckgully)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/16 "2002-09-15T17:19:31Z")
My apartment was buzzed yesterday by a US marine harrier. Holy crap was that thing loud. I don’t think it helped that they were doing some rather weird flying. I think they had the nozzles canted down about 45 degrees and were flying around very slowly, much slower than the helicopters that normally fly around here. The british version and the US marine versions look somewhat different, and the plane itself can look very different depending on its flight configuration. The US version (and possibly newer british ones, I’m not sure) have the wing mounted landing gear closer to the center of the wings instead of near the tips, and the nose/cockpit areas have a different shape. The one I saw yesterday also looked weird because all its flaps were fully deployed, making it look a lot different than a lot of the pictures. Joey, which airport are you near? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/17 "2002-09-15T18:38:32Z")
I’m near Mitchell International. Are you from the Milwaukee area?? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/18 "2002-09-15T18:50:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBill \* > \*\*The Harrier has two main vectorable thrust vents, from 0 deg (backward pointing) to just barely forward, so it can back up. That “blow gun type thing” next to the underwing auxilliary fuel tank is that vectorable vent. The missile is the blue thing toward the end of the wing. That thrust (another vent is obviously on the other side) provides the lift for hover. When it transitions from hover to forward flight, those vents swing backward. There are also vents near the wingtips that provide stability. I lived for six months directly under the flight deck of the USS Saipan, LHA-2. Right under where the Harriers tested the engines by starting a hover off the deck before they took off. They are loud. > > The Yak has two seperate lift jets, vertically mounted just behind the cockpit, ([below the white flag](http://www.aeronautics.ru/img003/yak-38-01.jpg)) for takeoff and landing. It has another flight engine (turbo jet) with vectoring nozzles, similar to the Harrier’s. \*\* Two questions. First, the vectorable vent seems to be fixed in it’s location (it seems to be a non moveble part). Is there something about I can’t see in the picture, or is it something inside that moves. Also what is the big gray thing (that I previosly called a missile) under the wing? ---
**Author:** ![Steel\_Wheels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Steel\_Wheels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steel_Wheels)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hovering-aircraft/128461/19 "2002-09-15T19:14:21Z")
**Joey P** to answer your first question, the entire vent structure which is pointing down in [this](http://www.defenselink.mil/photos/Jul1997/970620-N-9354D-005.jpg) picture rotates fore and aft to direct or “vector” the thrust. The large grey object you see is an auxilliary fuel tank or “drop” tank.