# How about Ms. Vice President instead of Madame **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2020, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903 "2020-11-06T16:52:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/1 "2020-11-06T16:52:05Z")
Seems like Ms. should be the modern equivalent to Mr. as a title. I’m weird though, what do you guys think? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/2 "2020-11-06T16:54:44Z")
Sure! Good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/3 "2020-11-06T16:57:09Z")
Well not to sound all woke and everything, but I think the correct answer is to address her the way she prefers. Personally, I like “Madame” it’s more fun to say and it just sounds cooler to my ears. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/4 "2020-11-06T17:02:20Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Well not to sound all woke and everything, but I think the correct answer is to address her the way she prefers Ok, but it’s not about addressing her personally, it’s about addressing the office. However it is reasonable that the holder of the office could have more than one choice for an official title. However, ‘Mister’ was chosen over alternatives like ‘Your Highness’ because it expresses the common status of the office holder, ‘Madame’ doesn’t strike me that way. > [@Grrr](#): > > Personally, I like “Madame” it’s more fun to say and it just sounds cooler to my ears. Both perfectly valid arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/5 "2020-11-06T17:07:06Z")
Is ‘Madame’ the correct way to spell it? I’ve vacillated between ‘Madam’ and ‘Madame’. I’m just not sure. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/6 "2020-11-06T17:12:30Z")
[This article](https://www.dresshead.com/what-is-the-difference-between-madam-and-madame/#:~:text=Madam%20is%20a%20polite%20term,and%20it%20typically%20denotes%20authority.) says ‘Madame’ is a title as opposed to a common or casual form of address. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/7 "2020-11-06T17:14:17Z")
Thank you! That’s very helpful, and I will use ‘Madame’ going forward, even though it reminds me of French bordellos. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/8 "2020-11-06T17:21:15Z")
When you _write_ it (the title), it gets abbreviated to Mme. or Mdme. Kind of like M(r)s. (definitely not Mistress) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/9 "2020-11-06T17:25:30Z")
Thanks. That’s good to know, too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/10 "2020-11-06T17:48:24Z")
> [@Kathryn Janeway](#): > > I prefer “Captain.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/11 "2020-11-06T17:52:04Z")
Or as Jean Luc Picard would say Number One. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/12 "2020-11-06T18:02:48Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Is ‘Madame’ the correct way to spell it? I’ve vacillated between ‘Madam’ and ‘Madame’. My understanding is that “Madam” has the accent on the first syllable, and “Madame” has it on the second. Two entirely different sounds. To my ears, “Madam” is entirely appropriate, and quite the equivalent of “Sir”. “Madame”, on the other hand, sounds way too grandiose and pretentious. But that’s just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/13 "2020-11-06T18:20:12Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > “Madame”, on the other hand, sounds way too grandiose and pretentious. But that’s just my opinion. This is America, not Frenchland, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/14 "2020-11-06T18:27:08Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > This is America, not Frenchland, dammit! You Essay! … You Essay! … You Essay! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/15 "2020-11-06T23:03:37Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > This is America, not Frenchland, dammit! Pardon your French. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/16 "2020-11-06T23:35:27Z")
How about we eighty-six all political titles and just go with Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris. Same with every damn person in any governmental position. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/17 "2020-11-06T23:41:48Z")
Maybe I’m just an old fart, but “Ms” sounds phony because it’s an artificial construct arising from the feminist movement of the 60s and 70s, whose sole purpose was to avoid labeling women with marital status (Mrs. vs Miss) which was a good and noble objective that I support, but it still rankles as an honorific for a person of status. “Madam” or “Madame” is to me far preferable. I would just go with “Madam Vice President”. It’s an honorable form of address that is analogous to the accepted practice of referring to the Queen of England as “Ma’am” in conversation after the initial formality of “Your Highness”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/18 "2020-11-06T23:49:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Maybe I’m just an old fart, but “Ms” sounds phony because it’s an artificial construct … Yes, you’re way behind the times. In modern business and professional and academic and polite social life, “Ms.” is completely standard. “Mrs.” is occasionally heard but relatively uncommon. “Miss” is extinct. It’s a settled matter. Ms. is standard. The conversation has moved to how to deal with non-binary gendered people, so the question is whether to use “Mx.” and if so how to pronounce it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/19 "2020-11-06T23:55:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Maybe I’m just an old fart, but “Ms” sounds phony because it’s an artificial construct arising from the feminist movement of the 60s and 70s, whose sole purpose was to avoid labeling women with marital status (Mrs. vs Miss) which was a good and noble objective that I support, but it still rankles as an honorific for a person of status. Nah. I’m an old fart, too, and I love Ms. When I was a judge’s assistant and we would conduct jury voir dire, a particular judge with whom I worked for some years had a habit of asking each female juror, “Is it Miss? Or Mrs.?” This forced each woman to disclose her marital status, because they would invariably respond in one of three ways: Miss for single, Mrs. for married and Ms. for divorced. It made the female court reporter and female me cringe each time he did it. It seemed so unfair when compared to the men, who never had to go into all that. We often took him to task for this. He of course ignored us. One day, he asked this question to a juror and received the indignant response, “It’s Mister!” First and only time I ever saw him speechless. Aforementioned court reporter and I couldn’t look at each other for fear of bursting into uncontrollable laughter. He never stopped doing it, though. (Detour complete.) I’m with you. I’ll stick with Madame Vice President. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903/20 "2020-11-06T23:58:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > How about we eighty-six all political titles and just go with Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris. Same with every damn person in any governmental position. That is basically what I’m suggesting. I think it helps to have official titles, but our tradition for men was to use the most basic address as the title. I think Ms. is the equivalent for women. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-ms-vice-president-instead-of-madame/924903.md?page=2)