# How about that Illuminati?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 20, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549 "2003-08-20T23:24:42Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Thylacinewas\_taken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacinewas_taken)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/1 "2003-08-20T23:24:42Z")
What does everyone have to say about the Illuminati?
According to Cecil they existed and have since fizzled out.
According to the friend I’m talking to now they are behind everything.
Can someone give me some convincing evidence one way or the other?
---
### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/2 "2003-08-20T23:41:42Z")
Er, shouldn’t that be how about _those_ Illuminati? 😃
I haven’t got any handy links, but AFAIK, there is no convincing evidence of any such organization. Common sense, it seems to me, dictates that any secret society large enough to be ‘behind everything’ would also be far too large for its existence to be kept secret. Also, it would be helpful if you could expand a bit on what you mean by ‘behind everything’. Behind all governments, behind all economics, wars, what?
Of course, maybe I’m just one of _them_, if you know what I mean, trying to throw you off the scent.
---
### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/3 "2003-08-20T23:42:47Z")
How about 'em?
fnord
---
### Author:  [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/4 "2003-08-21T00:26:23Z")
Don’t let them immanentize the eschaton!
---
### Author:  [@Shiva418](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiva418)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/5 "2003-08-21T01:11:52Z")
" **Tactical Thought**
If I were the head of the Illuminati, I certainly would not call it by that name; I’d call it something innocuous, like the Parent-Teachers Association. Better still, I’d call it the John Birch Society, and advertise it as an organization _opposed_ to the Illuminati. That way I’d be able to rope in all the people who are against the Illuminati and use them as unwitting dupes.
This is such a plausible idea that if the Illuminati do exist, they must have thought of it already." (from _Right Where You Are Sitting Now_ by Robert Anton Wilson, p. 57)
---
### Author:  [@transitionality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transitionality)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/6 "2003-08-21T05:48:55Z")
It doesn’t really matter if the Illuminati exists. Other organizations exist that do what the Illuminati is alleged to do.
The oil and weapons lobbies, for instance, are responsible for motivating Bush to pursue the invasion of Iraq.
The record and movie cartels are responsible for US (and upcoming European) legislation that conflicts with centuries of well-established citizens’ rights.
Just two examples off the top of my head.
---
### Author:  [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/7 "2003-08-21T15:56:36Z")
If you mean the Bilderberg Group, here is an extremely [Illuminating article](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4149485,00.html) by Jon Ronson on former member Denis Healy.
There are indeed very powerful people in the group, but then again same can be said about any given celebrity party. It does not exist to make decisions, merely to discuss the issues of the day in a social, or at least less formal, environment.
As the article relates, it can be difficult to get everyone to meet up and so perhaps sheer logistics is the reason it is “fizzling”.
---
### Author:  [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/8 "2003-08-21T16:27:21Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Common sense, it seems to me, dictates that any secret society large enough to be ‘behind everything’ would also be far too large for its existence to be kept secret.
It’s not a secret. Haven’t we all heard of it?
> [@](#):
>
> If I were the head of the Illuminati, I certainly would not call it by that name; I’d call it something innocuous, like the Parent-Teachers Association.
But if _I_ was in charge, I’d call it the Illuminati. After all, everyone knows it doesn’t exist. Hiding in plain sight as it were.
And, so, in conclusion the Illuminati do not exist.
_Last edited by Pleonast on 08-21-2003 at 10:41 AM_
---
### Author:  [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/9 "2003-08-21T16:47:47Z")
I saw a movie about it once, and the guy was saying that, as a member, he only knew the names of two other members, so no one person could bring down the whole organization. Not only that, but he had some pretty impressive documents to back up his claims. How powerful are they? I don’t know, and those who do probably won’t say.
---
### Author:  [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/10 "2003-08-21T17:03:20Z")
see:
RULE BY SECRECY by Jim Marrs
It is the best conspiracy book I know of. The last 30 pages or so get too wierd for me.
The Illuminati is supposed to be an offshoot of the Freemasons and the Freemasons have supposedly degenerated into a mostly business and social organization. If there are any conspiracies they will deliberately spread mis and disinformation. Some will be true but some will be so ridiculous that the truth will be dismissed.
Since Arab terrorists tried to hijack a plane in France on Christmas eve 1994 to use for a kamakaze attack on Paris I can’t help wondering why the FAA didn’t start reinforcing cockpit doors in 1995. And why hasn’t the media been discussing this failure for the last 2 years.
When things look TOO stupid my paranoid conspiracy bump starts itching.
Dal Timgar
---
### Author:  [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/11 "2003-08-21T18:44:56Z")
Don’t ever mention the Illuminati again! They have 1920’s style death rays, and know how to use them!
---
### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/12 "2003-08-21T18:47:43Z")
The first rule of the Illuminati is that you don’t talk about the Illuminati.
---
### Author:  [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/13 "2003-08-21T18:51:44Z")
I’ve always thought it was a re-hash of the old White Russian propaganda pamphlet [The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion](http://ddickerson.igc.org/protocols.html)
Like a lot of conspiracy theories…
(I’m trying to think of a way of saying I’m more inclined towards the cock-up theory without people getting the wrong idea…)
---
### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/14 "2003-08-21T22:39:52Z")
Yes, i most definitely believe they exist.
Not without evidence, of course.
What evidence, you say?
Read, people, read.
Lou Minotti
---
### Author:  [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/15 "2003-08-22T03:21:28Z")
Oh, yes. The Gnomes of Zurich control the alternative newspapers and the Congressional Wives; the Bermuda Triangle controls the Mafia, the Nuclear Reactors and the Goldfish Afficionados, and the Bavarians control the computer hackers, feminists and the heath food stores. Right?
---
### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2003, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/16 "2003-08-22T03:29:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Since Arab terrorists tried to hijack a plane in France on Christmas eve 1994 to use for a kamakaze attack on Paris I can’t help wondering why the FAA didn’t start reinforcing cockpit doors in 1995.
Yeah. It could only be that the FAA wanted to make sure there were no unfortunate hitches in any future hijacking plans, right?
---
### Author:  [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/17 "2003-08-22T03:45:55Z")
The Bavarian Illuminati did exist IIRC, but as one of many pseudo-Masonic groups in Europe round about the time of the French Revolution. No secret powers or mystical artifacts, just bored rich people playing out the fantasies of the time. Like the Jacobins or Cordeliers.
Okay, bad examples.
I’d say there’s far too many references to them in subculture for them to be a complete fiction it would seem, or at least a recent fiction. You don’t see remotely as many Principia Discordia or Emperor Norton references anyways, and those are real.
Regardless, there are and have been gobs of secret societies out there. And the name’s pretty catchy. So if there weren’t any, there probably are by now.
---
### Author:  [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/18 "2003-08-22T06:09:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Pleonast \*
> _Last edited by Pleonast on 08-21-2003 at 10:41 AM_
**Moderator’s Note:** Please don’t insert fake “edited by” tags in your posts.
---
### Author:  [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/19 "2003-08-22T06:49:42Z")
Do I believe there is a small group of people that make decisions that effectively rule the world.? A bunch of wealthy, powerful businessmen and politicians who make deals with each other for their own benefit. Deals that put carefully selected politicians into power that will do their bidding.
Politicians that would be willing to start a war if it was deemed necessary by the elite. Businessmen who would bankrupt, pillage, and steal from hostile governments. Assassinate leaders that were not willing to share the wealth. Politicians who would look the other way at human rights violations committed by the elite, yet condemn these same acts when committed by non-elite governments.
Businessmen who own vast empires and worldwide monopolies. Families who have been in leadership roles for decades and even centuries. etc. etc.
No, it could never happen. :rolleyes:
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/20 "2003-08-22T12:23:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Svt4Him \*
> \*\*I saw a movie about it once, and the guy was saying that, as a member, he only knew the names of two other members, so no one person could bring down the whole organization. Not only that, but he had some pretty impressive documents to back up his claims. How powerful are they? I don’t know, and those who do probably won’t say. \*\*
Well, let’s see a cite for the movie and the documents.
No?
Figures.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549.md?page=2)