# How about that Illuminati? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549 "2003-08-20T23:24:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/61 "2003-08-26T00:02:44Z")
Monty: > [@](#): > > _by Vanilla_ > **If I were in charge, i would most definitely want everyone and anyone who found me out to be considered a nutter. makes em afraid of what others will think and won’t rock the boat. _Seems to work really well, as you see._** 'nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/62 "2003-08-26T01:25:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I meant tell me you’re kidding about believing the illuminati were behind the twin towers collapse, or anything else for that matter. Just to add to the above, I find it endlessly fascinating that some people find it so absolutely necessary to believe that there is some sort of overall, unified controlling factor in every widely-reported event. It’s a sort of religious belief, methinks, not all that much different than believeing that God is responsible for everything that happens, but with perhaps even less of a factual foundation than most religious histories. That said, I’ve previously skimmed some of the absolute drivel put out by Icke’s group, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to wade thought that crap again. This, I think, is where it would be good if **Vanilla** would, in his or her own words, explain just how some organization equivalent to the Illuminati is responsible for such things as the destruction of the World Trade Center and the death of Princess Di, and why this explanation is more reasonable than the ones usually put forward. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/63 "2003-08-26T01:43:19Z")
vanilla’s a she. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/64 "2003-08-26T22:16:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*I meant tell me you’re kidding about believing the illuminati were behind the twin towers collapse, or anything else for that matter. \*\* Its possible. If you have read what I have, some evidence does seem viable. No, I’m not kidding. Another good book was, I forget the name, but it was by a A. Ralph Epperson. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/65 "2003-08-26T22:17:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > \*\* > > 'nuff said. \*\* 😉 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/66 "2003-08-26T22:35:14Z")
Oh, Mr. Icke claims that the name Elizabeth comes from (El-lizard-birth) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/67 "2003-08-26T22:35:55Z")
Well, vanilla, if you want to believe in a non-existant organization, have at it. But to purport that non-existant organization is behind recent terrorist attacks is kind of silly, to put it mildly. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/68 "2003-08-26T22:45:08Z")
Read the book, its interesting, I got it at my library. Alice in Wonderland-the lies of 9-11. Reading is good. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/69 "2003-08-26T22:47:01Z")
So’s reading fiction, as I see you’ve discovered. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/70 "2003-08-27T10:56:39Z")
**Vanilla** , much as I’ve enjoyed your company, I’m afraid I’d find that book so ludicrous it really would offend me. Taking the unfortunate, accidental death of an upper class yet rather foolish woman (Diana, the late Princess of Wales) and spinning it into a conspiracy theory is not something I find appealing. Appalling is more like it! CJ ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/71 "2003-08-27T16:33:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*So’s reading fiction, as I see you’ve discovered. \*\* Oh, have you read the book? If not, here you are saying its all lies. That would be ignorant, and you aren’t, so please tell me what parts of the book you find untrue. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/72 "2003-08-27T16:44:41Z")
vanilla, how can you be a Bircher AND a political liberal (in the modern sense of the word)? and David Icke’s stuff, even ignoring the Reptilian material, falls right in the category of what Robert Welch referred to as a “neutralizer”, rendering meaningful opposition to the Insiders ineffective by wrapping it up in fringe theories. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/73 "2003-08-27T16:46:26Z")
It’s a fiction that there’s an Illuminati organization, let alone one bent on world domination. To assert as fact that such an entity exists is untrue. It’s a fiction that the Freemasons are part of an Illuminati organization, let alone bent on world domination. To assert as fact that they are is untrue. It’s a fiction that the Freemasons are an occult religion. To assert as fact that they are is untrue. Damn right I’m not ignorant. I really don’t find you to be gullible, vanilla, but only the gullible believe tripe such as that fiction. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/74 "2003-08-27T16:47:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriarTed \* > \*\*vanilla, how can you be a Bircher AND a political liberal (in the modern sense of the word)? > > \*\* not easy, but i manage. I’m more of a cultural liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/75 "2003-08-27T16:48:16Z")
He is just possed by demons **vanilla** , as are all of us disbelievers. You and **Lekatt** are both the only sane, unpossessed people on this board. (with a few other exceptions I guess.) Perhaps you should find out where we all live and do exorcisms on us. Charge a small fee, make sure we aren’t smothered, and then we will all believe in what is obviously the truth. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/76 "2003-08-27T16:49:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*It’s a fiction that there’s an Illuminati organization, let alone one bent on world domination. To assert as fact that such an entity exists is untrue. > > It’s a fiction that the Freemasons are part of an Illuminati organization, let alone bent on world domination. To assert as fact that they are is untrue. > > It’s a fiction that the Freemasons are an occult religion. To assert as fact that they are is untrue. > > Damn right I’m not ignorant. I really don’t find you to be gullible, vanilla, but only the gullible believe tripe such as that fiction. \*\* For The Record: I don’t believe the Masons are occult or religion or part of a plot on world domination. I don’t know if Icke even mentioned them in the book. Anyway, its listed under the 900’s in the library, which is something like History. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/77 "2003-08-27T16:51:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Epimetheus \* > \*\*He is just possed by demons **vanilla** , as are all of us disbelievers. You and **Lekatt** are both the only sane, unpossessed people on this board. (with a few other exceptions I guess.) Perhaps you should find out where we all live and do exorcisms on us. Charge a small fee, make sure we aren’t smothered, and then we will all believe in what is obviously the truth. \*\* LOL, I don’t know if you intended to be funny, but it sounds funny to me. He? You mean Monty? No way, not possessed, and he is not a disbeliever anyway! Hey! Lump me with Lekatt eh!? You scallywag! ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/78 "2003-08-27T17:01:12Z")
Ok, lumping you with lekatt was insulting, not funny. I appologize. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/79 "2003-08-27T17:31:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, its listed under the 900’s in the library, which is something like History. Yeah, “something like History,” but not exactly History. According to [this site](http://http://www.tnrdlib.bc.ca/dewey.html), the 900 series constitute: > [@](#): > > 900 Geography & history > 901 Philosophy & theory > 902 Miscellany > 903 Dictionaries & encyclopedias > 904 Collected accounts of events > 905 Serial publications > 906 Organizations & management > 907 Education, research, related topics > 908 With respect to kinds of persons > 909 World history > 910 Geography & travel > 911 Historical geography > 912 Graphic representations of earth > 913 Ancient world > 914 Europe > 915 Asia > 916 Africa > 917 North America > 918 South America > 919 Other areas > 920 Biography, genealogy, insignia > 921 Not assigned or no longer used > 922 Not assigned or no longer used > 923 Not assigned or no longer used > 924 Not assigned or no longer used > 925 Not assigned or no longer used > 926 Not assigned or no longer used > 927 Not assigned or no longer used > 928 Not assigned or no longer used > 929 Genealogy, names, insignia > 930 History of ancient world > 931 History of ancient world China > 932 History of ancient world Egypt > 933 History of ancient world Palestine > 934 History of ancient world India > 935 History of ancient world Mesopotamia & Iranian Plateau > 936 History of ancient world Europe north & west of Italy > 937 History of ancient world Italy & adjacent territories > 938 History of ancient world Greece > 939 History of ancient world Other parts of ancient world > 940 General history of Europe > 941 General history of Europe British Isles > 942 General history of Europe England & Wales > 943 General history of Europe Central Europe Germany > 944 General history of Europe France & Monaco > 945 General history of Europe Italian Peninsula & adjacent islands > 946 General history of Europe Iberian Peninsula & adjacent islands > 947 General history of Europe Eastern Europe Soviet Union > 948 General history of Europe Northern Europe Scandinavia > 949 General history of Europe Other parts of Europe > 950 General history of Asia Far East > 951 General history of Asia China & adjacent areas > 952 General history of Asia Japan > 953 General history of Asia Arabian Peninsula & adjacent areas > 954 General history of Asia South Asia India > 955 General history of Asia Iran > 956 General history of Asia Middle East (Near East) > 957 General history of Asia Siberia (Asiatic Russia) > 958 General history of Asia Central Asia > 959 General history of Asia Southeast Asia > 960 General history of Africa > 961 General history of Africa Tunisia & Libya > 962 General history of Africa Egypt & Sudan > 963 General history of Africa Ethiopia > 964 General history of Africa Morocco & Canary Islands > 965 General history of Africa Algeria > 966 General history of Africa West Africa & offshore islands > 967 General history of Africa Central Africa & offshore islands > 968 General history of Africa Southern Africa > 969 General history of Africa South Indian Ocean islands > 970 General history of North America > 971 General history of North America Canada > 972 General history of North America Middle America Mexico > 973 General history of North America United States > 974 General history of North America Northeastern United States > 975 General history of North America Southeastern United States > 976 General history of North America South central United States > 977 General history of North America North central United States > 978 General history of North America Western United States > 979 General history of North America Great Basin & Pacific Slope > 980 General history of South America > 981 General history of South America Brazil > 982 General history of South America Argentina > 983 General history of South America Chile > 984 General history of South America Bolivia > 985 General history of South America Peru > 986 General history of South America Colombia & Ecuador > 987 General history of South America Venezuela > 988 General history of South America Guiana > 989 General history of South America Paraguay & Uruguay > 990 General history of other areas > 991 Not assigned or no longer used > 992 Not assigned or no longer used > 993 General history of other areas New Zealand > 994 General history of other areas Australia > 995 General history of other areas Melanesia New Guinea > 996 General history of other areas Other parts of Pacific Polynesia > 997 General history of other areas Atlantic Ocean islands > 998 General history of other areas Arctic islands & Antarctica > 999 Extraterrestrial worlds You’ll notice that there’s a place there for miscellany and also a place for accounts of events. Methinks the conpsiracy theories go under one or the other. BTW, vanilla; what do you have to say about this part of my posting? > [@](#): > > It’s a fiction that there’s an Illuminati organization, let alone one bent on world domination. To assert as fact that such an entity exists is untrue. You said, IIRC, that you believe the Illuminati exist. What valid, reputable proof do you have for that? Peer-reviewed journal entries would be nice for a start. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549/80 "2003-08-29T14:58:32Z")
I will have to admit (reluctantly) to being temporarily gullible. Although some of his ideas are okay, I finihsed the book and I can now see what you guys are saying about (reputable). Icke seesm to believe theres people living inside the earth (how woudl they breath?) and theres a sea and sun inside too. Sorry for my lapse of judgment there. He was quite persuasive. I will be more critical next time I read something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-that-illuminati/196549.md?page=5)