# How About Those Cubbies? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 16, 2001, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163 "2001-04-16T15:02:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/21 "2001-04-17T17:01:13Z")
> [@](#): > > He’s just the best player this franchise has seen since Ernie Banks I’ll pretend that you had a memory lapse and forgot about Ryne Sandberg. Yes, the best second baseman ever, the one time highest paid ball palyer in the league at a _whopping_ $7 million a year. Remember when that was a lot? Yeah, those were the days. ---
**Author:** ![Mooney252](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7c8e57/32.png) [@Mooney252](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mooney252)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/22 "2001-04-17T18:14:20Z")
Answers to the Cubs quiz: 1. Dave Kingman 2. He did it as a batter 3. Glenn Beckert, 12 4. Mike Vail 5. One 6. The Mets, who scored six in the top of the inning 7, 8. Mike Schmidt Phillies won the latter game, 25-22. (I was in at Uchicago that day: every time I’d come back from a class one team would have added a touchdown to the score.) 7. Harry Chiti, traded to the Mets for cash and a player to be named later. The Mets looked him over and designated him to the player to be named later. 8. They apologized for the team’s play. 9. Too easy: Cubs with more than 4,200 games. Next closest: Athletics: 4,100. 10. The Cubs lost to a team that had the lowest batting average of any pennant winner, .230. That said, I have to go make a sales call on a Tribune subsidiary at 1060 W. Addison. Think that the boss will buy that? ---
**Author:** ![DynoSaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DynoSaur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DynoSaur)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/23 "2001-04-18T04:57:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dignan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > He’s just the best player this franchise has seen since Ernie Banks > > I’ll pretend that you had a memory lapse and forgot about Ryne Sandberg. Yes, the best second baseman ever, the one time highest paid ball palyer in the league at a _whopping_ $7 million a year. Remember when that was a lot? Yeah, those were the days. \*\* Umm…I like Ryno as much as the next guy. More, probably. He was one of my childhood heroes. Him and Jody Davis. And Rick Sutcliffe. Ah, the 1984 Cubs… But, best second baseman ever? What are you smoking? He wasn’t even the best second baseman to play in the 1990s (that would be Robbie Alomar). He’s top ten all time, certainly, but nowhere near #1. He’s certainly behind Alomar, Joe Morgan (as much as it pains me to say -that-), Rogers Hornsby, and Bill Mazeroski, and probably behind Craig Biggio and Eddie Collins, and I’m sure there are a few I’m missing that should be up there. And, Bobby Bonilla was the highest paid player in the league once, too. So? Now, Sammy…Sammy is the most disgustingly potent offensive weapon the Cubs have had since the Banks/Williams/Santo days. And he may be better than them. And he’s not really that bad of a defensive outfielder. He’s average in the field, which, when you’re one of the top two or three right fielders in the game in terms of offensive production, is more than adequate. Also, as an aside, he’s got the second-best chance of any active player to break Aaron’s home-run record (35%, behind Junior Griffey at 36%. For general info, McGwire is third at 23%.). And, jarbaby, I’m going to assume that you’re either a huge Mark Grace fan or think Skip Bayless has a clue when he writes about anything, and won’t even try to persuade you about Sammy. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/24 "2001-04-18T13:43:44Z")
The bullpen’s already imploded. On behalf of all **Philadelphia Phillies** phans, thank you Jeff Fassero! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/25 "2001-04-18T13:52:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DynoSaur \* > > And, jarbaby, I’m going to assume that you’re either a huge Mark Grace fan or think Skip Bayless has a clue when he writes about anything, and won’t even try to persuade you about Sammy. Well I WAS a huge Mark Grace fan, until he decided that he really DIDN’T want to play his whole career in Chicago. 🙂 And please don’t try to attribute all of my knowledge of the sport on a reporter. I watch the Cubs every day, and if I can’t see it, I listen to it, I’ve been doing it since i was fourteen. I don’t like Sammy Sosa. I do not think he is worth $110,000 a game. He hits home runs, and that’s nice. You won’t ever convince me that he’s the Cubs one and only savior. And by the way, I knew this would happen. As soon as the Cubs drop one game, ESPN’s all over it saying “WELL WE KNEW their pitching wasn’t that good all along…” jarbaby ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/26 "2001-04-18T22:17:44Z")
Answer to my question (what Cub player turned a single into an inside-the-park homerun), if anyone is interested: Andy Pafko. Only he was the centerfielder at the time. The ump ruled that he trapped a liner. Still holding the ball, he argued while three runs scored. Any body else remember that? ---
**Author:** ![DynoSaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DynoSaur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DynoSaur)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/27 "2001-04-18T23:05:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by DynoSaur \* > > > > And, jarbaby, I’m going to assume that you’re either a huge Mark Grace fan or think Skip Bayless has a clue when he writes about anything, and won’t even try to persuade you about Sammy. > > Well I WAS a huge Mark Grace fan, until he decided that he really DIDN’T want to play his whole career in Chicago. 🙂 > > And please don’t try to attribute all of my knowledge of the sport on a reporter. I watch the Cubs every day, and if I can’t see it, I listen to it, I’ve been doing it since i was fourteen. > > I don’t like Sammy Sosa. I do not think he is worth $110,000 a game. He hits home runs, and that’s nice. You won’t ever convince me that he’s the Cubs one and only savior. > > \*\* I apologize for seeming to attribute all your knowledge of the Cubs to a reporter. I didn’t mean to. But, you must admit, that -was- a very Bayless thing to say. And, while I said I wouldn’t try to convince you otherwise, I will…what can I say, I’m a Cubs fan, I’m fond of hopeless causes (here referring to trying to convince you that Sammy’s really not bad, not you personally). I don’t believe that he’s the Cubs one and only savior. I’m thinking that title belongs to the infield and pitching that they’ve currently got working their way through the minor leagues (Choi, Hill, Montanez, Zambrano, Cruz, and everyone’s favorite unindicted felon, Ben Christiansen). And I know that the Cubs have been saying that the youngsters would help since time immemorial, but this time, people outside the organization agree with them… However…“Sammy hits home runs” is a bit of an understatement of his value. Over the past three years, he has been one of the top ten offensive producers in the major leagues. He’s a better hitter, right now, than Mark Grace ever dreamed of being. (This isn’t a slam on Grace. Right now, Sammy’s a better hitter than -most- people have dreamed of being, and taken over their whole careers, Grace is just as good as Sosa, to this point. But Sammy’s still having his best years, while Mark’s have passed him by). I’m not sure how statistical we should get here, but we can do that, if you like… And, salary-wise, while we can debate whether or not -any- MLB player is worth what they’re making, assuming that Manny Ramirez is worth the $20M a year that -he’s- making, Sammy getting $18M is just about right. Now, I’ll go hope that the Cubs don’t blow this game… ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/28 "2001-04-19T13:28:08Z")
Hey, Montfort, 😃 Common civility stays my hand for any rude smilies. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/29 "2001-04-19T13:33:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barbitu8 \* > \*\*Hey, Montfort, 😃 > Common civility stays my hand for any rude smilies. \*\* Yeah, yeah, I guess we’ll see you next year. 😃 [sub]Off to find some pesky Braves fans…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/30 "2001-04-19T13:55:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DynoSaur \* > > And, salary-wise, while we can debate whether or not -any- MLB player is worth what they’re making, assuming that Manny Ramirez is worth the $20M a year that -he’s- making, Sammy getting $18M is just about right. Jeff Fassero…frankly is my current vote for Most Valuable Gray Haired Player at this point… Dyno, thanks for the apology, it wasn’t necessary 🙂 I think perhaps my anger at Sammy is because he’s a good symbol of “modern baseball” with nutball salaries and guys trying to be stars in and of themselves, instead of team players with loyalty to a city. I mean, Sammy said a thousand times last year that he didn’t want to stay here…and now all of the sudden he loves it here…which is it? When you get enough money you like it? ENOUGH JARBABY…SHUT UP! Ok, fine Everytime we’re in a bind, though, I do say “if sammy hits a homer here…I’ll take back everything I’ve said about him”…strangely…it hasn’t happened yet this season ☹ Perhaps this is why I’ve gotten into hockey so much as of late, the Blackhawks don’t really have a big standout star, and hockey DEMANDS team play. Now if only the Sox could lose a few MORE games, I’d be in heaven. jarbaby ---
**Author:** ![Evnglion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f04885/32.png) [@Evnglion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evnglion)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2001, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/31 "2001-04-19T14:12:57Z")
I hate the Cubs with a passion. I am so sick of Sammy Sosa and his cocky attitude. I want Wrigley to close it’s doors forever. Sammy is not worth $18mil, and he should NEVER get that. He really just isn’t a very good defensive player, and his offense has been strong for the last couple of years, but he has slumps periodically (I suppose any batter does). ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2001, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/32 "2001-04-21T15:43:46Z")
> [@](#): > > He wasn’t even the best second baseman to play in the 1990s (that would be Robbie Alomar). Wrong, wrong, wrong! Sandberg was way better than Alomar! How many MVP’s did Alomar get (I think he actually may have had one)? How many times did Alomar lead the league in HR’s? Sandberg went on a 123 game stretch without an error. Sandberg at the very least was the best of the 80’s/early 90’s. > [@](#): > > I hate the Cubs with a passion. . . . I want Wrigley to close it’s doors forever. Oh yeah, because they’re always winning, I can see how someone could get tired of them :rolleyes:. Have you ever been to Wrigley? No one hates the Cubs, that’s just goofy. But you _could_ be a White Sox fan, ist that the case? I don’t understand this “inner city” hatred of the other team. We aren’t even in the same league. When the Cubs play the Sox I’ll cheer for the Cubs, but any other time I just want to see the city of Chicago win. Lord knows it doesn’t happen nearly as much as it used to. > [@](#): > > Everytime we’re in a bind, though, I do say “if sammy hits a homer here…I’ll take back everything I’ve said about him”…strangely…it hasn’t happened yet this season Did that grand slam do it for you last night? Wooooooooooo! Sammy! Grand Slam! Cubs still in first!!! ---
**Author:** ![JosephFinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JosephFinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JosephFinn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2001, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/33 "2001-04-21T16:17:33Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barbitu8 \* > Superdude and Jarbaby, you guys are babies when it comes to being Cub fans. I’ve been a fan since the last time they won a pennant. (1945 if I have to remind you.) > > You don’t have to remind me 🙂 > > I may be a ‘baby’ cub fan, but at least I’m not a White Sox bandwagoner who decides every year or so whether or not I’m rooting for the team 🙂 Hey, hey. There are plenty of us loyal White Sox fans who have suffered throuigh the lean years. Kind of like Cub fans suffering through every year. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist). Really though, I give full credit to the Cubs for showing some great early-season hustle. I don’t know if they can keep it up with their low reserves (toss two injuries in and the Cubs would be in trouble), but they deserve proper praise for their work so far. The White Sox obviosuly are missing a gear somewhere, but I think they will get back on track. And if not, we have more possibilities in the minors than we know what to do with (Ruach, anyone?) Oh, and Baldwin is scheduled to start today (Sat 4/21). I’ll close with a Steve Goodman line from his song “As a Cub Fan Lay Dying”: You know folks, the law of averages says/ Anything will happen that can/ That’s what it says/ But the last time the Cubs/ Won a National League Pennant/ Was the year we dropped the Bomb on Japan. Good luck, Cubs! Here’s to a rematch of 1916. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/34 "2001-04-22T01:29:31Z")
Aaah, Steve Goodman! Talk about Cub fans. None greater. A pity he died so young. His songs were great! Probably the most underestimated songwriter ever. The Sox. I remember when I was in high school and they had the “hitless wonders,” and some “cub fans” became sox fans overnight. We real cub fans are still here. The law of averages? Bah, humbug! That’s one law the Cubs violate every year. For so many years, I heard that banality. ---
**Author:** ![DynoSaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DynoSaur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DynoSaur)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/35 "2001-04-22T12:05:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dignan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > He wasn’t even the best second baseman to play in the 1990s (that would be Robbie Alomar). > > Wrong, wrong, wrong! Sandberg was way better than Alomar! How many MVP’s did Alomar get (I think he actually may have had one)? How many times did Alomar lead the league in HR’s? Sandberg went on a 123 game stretch without an error. Sandberg at the very least was the best of the 80’s/early 90’s. > > \*\* Well, true, Alomar hasn’t won any MVP awards…but, Alomar did have a little bit to do with the Blue Jays winning back-to-back World Series… And, statistically speaking, he’s had _5_ seasons better than the one Ryno had when he won his. In fact, Alomar’s _average_ season is pretty damned close to Ryno’s best ever. And yes, Sandberg had a 123-game errorless streak. Alomar’s only got to 104. Shame, that. It’s not like there’s a whole lot of difference between the two, defensively. And, I’ll grant that Sandberg was the best second baseman of the 80’s and early 90’s. But it’s not like there was a whole lot of competition for that crown…who are the other choices? Tommy Herr? Wally Backman? Chico Lind? And, finally, to throw a few stats in here…according to the player cards at [http://www.baseballprospectus.com](http://www.baseballprospectus.com) , Ryno was worth approximately 25 wins above an average player over the course of his 16-year career. That’s approximately 1.5 wins/year. Alomar has been worth about 39 wins over average in a 13-year career…about 3 wins a year. Again, by this metric, Alomar has had 4 years better than Ryno’s best year. But, anyway…this isn’t to say that Ryno wasn’t a great player. He just wasn’t as good as Alomar is. There’s no shame in that. ---
**Author:** ![DynoSaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DynoSaur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DynoSaur)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/36 "2001-04-22T20:42:27Z")
Gary Matthews Jr. hits a home run? You have _got_ to be kidding me. Of course, Zuleta follows that up with a bases-loaded double play grounder, so this may really be the Cubs after all… Ah…Fassero blows the save. This is **definitely** the Cubs… ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/37 "2001-04-22T21:55:28Z")
Well, I guess the Cubs lost today from the last post. Hundley, the Cubs catcher – is this the same Hundley that has been the Cubs catcher for the last million years? If so, he must be older than the hills (and over them too). ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/38 "2001-04-22T22:26:47Z")
Todd Hundley is the first Hundley’s son…he came over from the Dodgers this season. Got off to a slow start, but hit two home runs yesterday. I think he’s a little bit dreamy, but his hitting ain’t so great. jarbaby ---
**Author:** ![DRY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@DRY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRY)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/39 "2001-04-22T23:37:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Todd Hundley is the first Hundley’s son…he came over from the Dodgers this season. Got off to a slow start, but hit two home runs yesterday. I think he’s a little bit dreamy, but his hitting ain’t so great. > > jarbaby \*\* His _hitting_ ain’t great? Have you seen him run or throw? (I think he hurt his arm at some point–he was a good defensive catcher when he first came up) He doesn’t hit for a high batting average, but he’s got pretty good power. ---
**Author:** ![DynoSaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DynoSaur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DynoSaur)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163/40 "2001-04-23T02:13:03Z")
After perusing my copy of the Baseball Prospectus for this year…(yes, I am a true baseball geek)… Todd Hundley is projected to be about the fifth-best offensive catcher in the game (behind some guys named Piazza, Rodriguez, Posada, and Johnson). Defensively, well, yeah, he’s pretty bad. At throwing, at least. Rotator-cuff surgery will do that to you. Fortunately, stolen bases aren’t a huge part of the game anymore, so the fact that he can’t throw isn’t -that- important. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-about-those-cubbies/62163.md?page=3)