# How acceptable would the Lord's Prayer be to non-Christians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420 "2011-02-06T18:38:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/21 "2011-02-07T01:56:48Z")
Despite the hostility with which some posters seem to be seething at what was, after all, a simple question, I thank you for your responses. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/22 "2011-02-07T02:16:29Z")
NeoPagan dropping in… Well, _ignoring_ the Christian origins, here are the problematic parts (note I did not say “offensive”, I’m trying to keep things impartial here) > [@](#): > > Our Father who art in heaven, Pagans believe in multiple gods, some of whom are female or of indeterminate gender. Nor do they feel these gods are necessarily located in “heaven” but rather they may well live on Earth or in the Moon or whatever. It’s not so much that a male god in heaven is offensive as that it leaves out an awful lot of other Deities. > [@](#): > > hallowed be thy name. Completely fine - names of god/dess(es) are sacred, i.e. “hallowed” > [@](#): > > Thy kingdom come. Um… this is weird from our viewpoint. The god/dess(es) already have their domains of power, this isn’t something in the future for them. > [@](#): > > Thy will be done/on earth as it is in heaven./Give us this day our daily bread,/ and forgive us our trespasses, So far, so good > [@](#): > > as we forgive those who trespass against us, This is not required of Pagans. In fact, some Pagan traditions really don’t have much in the way of forgiveness, more like getting even. > [@](#): > > and lead us not into temptation,/ but deliver us from evil. Hmm… I would have phrased it more as “give me the means to deliver myself from evil” but this could probably sneak by… > [@](#): > > For thine is the kingdom,/and the power, and the glory,/for ever and ever. Amen. We usually end “so mote it be” but amen is basically the same. The rest… well, it’s OK I guess. > [@](#): > > Which faiths would, for various reasons, not be likely to recite or adopt it? It’s not unheard of for Pagans to recite Christian (or other) prayers in mixed groups as we have no prohibition from worshiping god/dess(es) other than the ones we normally do, but we’d be unlikely to use this one due to the above points and because of the Christian baggage. Oddly enough, the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi is the one I’ve seen most often in Pagan Circles and homes. In fact, I have a copy of it hanging on my wall. For those of you not famillar with that one: - Lord, make me an instrument of your peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith. Where there is despair, hope. Where there is darkness, light. Where there is sadness, joy. ``` O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console; to be understood, as to understand; to be loved, as to love. For it is in giving that we receive. It is in pardoning that we are pardoned, and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life. Amen. * ``` It’s even less explicitly Christian, the gender is easily changed if one so desires, and it involves a more active person who is asking to be given the means to effect change and not simply passively awaiting rescue. It also ties into the NeoPagan concepts involving getting what you give. Of course, not all Pagans would be accepting of that prayer, either. If the differences aren’t that clear let me know and I’ll try again. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/23 "2011-02-07T03:57:03Z")
> [@AshenLady](#): > > Islamic tales from the Koran is the only religion that is politically correct, so take your Lord’s prayer and put it in a place where the sun don’t shine. This appears to be threadshitting. Please don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/24 "2011-02-07T04:01:50Z")
I’ll stick with the Bodhisattva vows and the five precepts. No gods = no prayers. Just vows to oneself. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/25 "2011-02-07T14:02:58Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > Would you be ok with this in a Christian church? > _In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. > Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds. > The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. > Owner of the Day of Judgement. > Thee alone we worship; Thee alone we ask for help. > Show us the straight path… > The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the path of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray._ I am happy with it if you translate Allah as well as the rest. Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/26 "2011-02-07T14:13:16Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > How acceptable would it be to take a well known Moslem prayer and use it? How acceptable would it be to take a prayer associated with Judaism and use it? > > When I was growing up my church added the doxology to the Lord’s Prayer and yet the version used in our public schools did not. I was afraid that I would go to hell if I did not say it, and stand out among the predominantly Roman Catholic kids if I did. > > Prayer in public gatherings where there will be a mix of people from different faiths and people free from faith is dickish bullying. I agree that it’s definitely a Christian prayer & should be reserved for all-Christian events. Even there, it’s not exactly universal. When _I_ was growing up, the Protestant kids were the definite majority. On the rare\* occasions when prayers were said, they added that stuff on the end. Which I ignored. And I wondered why they never said the Hail Mary. - I’ve heard people look back to those golden days when every public school began the day with Christian prayer. In semi-rural Texas, starting in the early 1950’s, we began the day with The Pledge of Allegiance & “My Country 'tis of Thee.” _No prayer_–it was reserved for very special occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/27 "2011-02-07T15:02:29Z")
I don’t know why atheists are bothing to answer – of _course_ any prayer to a god in any form is going to be problematic to you. The OP explicitly asks if it would be uncomfortable for “those of other faiths.” ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/28 "2011-02-07T15:05:15Z")
Speaking as a Jew: the words themselves are not objectionable. Refering to God as Father (OK, may be sexist, but that’s a different issue) is certainly within Jewish prayer. The line about “thine is the kingdom, and the power and the glory” is similar to a prayer of David from I Chronicles 29:10 - 13. (“To youl, O Lord, is greatness and power, glory and splendor and majesty”) So, while the words themselves are not objectionable, the origin and general connotation mark it as Christian. It’s sometimes hard to separate the words from their history. However, I don’t think I’d use the word “unacceptable.” It might be a little disconcerting. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/29 "2011-02-07T15:08:58Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I am happy with it if you translate Allah as well as the rest. Catholic. As far as I know it _is_ translated properly. English speaking Muslims still refer to “Allah”. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/30 "2011-02-07T15:20:11Z")
And, as has been mentioned before, _allah_ is the Arabic word meaning god. In Arabic, Apollo is the Greek _allah_ of the sun; Arabic-speaking Christians pray to _Allah_ in the same fashion that I address my own prayers to _Dios_. The three Religions of the Book worship the same G-d. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/31 "2011-02-07T15:31:04Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Christ isn’t specifically mentioned, obviously. Would those of other faiths be comfortable in reciting it, were it not for its New Testament origins as the supposed words of Christ himself? Which faiths would, for various reasons, not be likely to recite or adopt it? Hindu prayers are a bit more… specific, although Hindus in general don’t have a problem with _god_ in the singular form, even capitalized. For example, my family’s patron god is Ganpati (Ganesh), and I grew up reciting the _Vakratunda_, the traditional morning invocation of Ganesh devotees: > [@](#): > > Vakratunda mahakaaya > Surya koti samaprabha > Nirvighnam kurume deva > Shubha kaaryeshhu sarvadaa …which basically translates as, “Lord, you are fat, and have a round trunk, and you shine as brightly as a million suns. Please remove the obstacles from my duties.” ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/32 "2011-02-07T15:32:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > As far as I know it _is_ translated properly. English speaking Muslims still refer to “Allah”. I say God. I am Urdu speaking by origin and use “khuda”. It is true that many no-Arabic places use Allah as well but that is an off shoot of the fact that prayers are said in Arabic. I know my very Coptic Christian friend used the term _Allah_ all the time. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/33 "2011-02-07T15:34:58Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Do Muslims accept prayer that is not found in the text of the Quran? Quran is something else, while prayer is something else. [QUOTE=sh1bu1] Really? You think that people sensitive to being colonized and persecuted by Christian countries for centuries might think it’s hunky dory to use a prayer associated with Christianity? [/QUOTE] Speaking as one who was “colonized and persecuted” hell yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/34 "2011-02-07T16:00:46Z")
I would argue that the Lord’s Prayer is really a Jewish prayer in origin (seeing as how it was formulated by a Jewish preacher for Jewish followers), but obviously, it’s subsequent appropriation as a specifically Christian prayer, and a history of Christian coersion of Jews to say the prayer publicly make it unpalatable as an ecumenical prayer even for pan-Abrahamic audiences. That it’s probably not going to fly with non-believers or non\_Abrahamic faiths goes without saying, though many religious minorities are accustomed to hearing Christian religiosity expressed in public situations, and many individuals are not particularly ruffled by hearing an “Our Father.” As far as inappropriate religiosity goes, it’s far from the worst thing one could hear. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/35 "2011-02-07T16:36:50Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > As an atheist I find the entire prayer unacceptable and would not say it. I’d also be highly offended if it was said at a event like a graduation or non-religious meeting and probally get up and leave. I also find the Serenity Prayer equally unacceptable. As an atheist I’d have no problem saying it (and have done just that - My wife and I have had a church wedding and two baptisms without believing a word of what was said). It is a meaningless, harmless verse and to me, requires less emotional commitment as singing “Puff, the magic Dragon” In fact, even though the latter is based on a mythical creature I find it far more meaningful and moving than any religious texts or songs. I suspect The lord’s prayer or any other prayer only has religious power or meaning if you actually believe in the deity in question or a belief in an incompatible rival. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/36 "2011-02-07T16:43:20Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I don’t know why atheists are bothing to answer – of _course_ any prayer to a god in any form is going to be problematic to you. The OP explicitly asks if it would be uncomfortable for “those of other faiths.” Well the title mentions non-Christians so I guess we count. And don’t assume that it is necessarily problematic to atheists. I manage to recite it just fine, as I say, for me it is meaningless and carries no power so it takes no effort to recite it and causes me no harm. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/37 "2011-02-07T17:03:45Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I don’t know why atheists are bothing to answer Because I’m \*also \*Buddhist, and I object to the LP as a Buddhist for pretty much the same reasons as my atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/38 "2011-02-07T18:27:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Lord, you are fat, and have a round trunk, and you shine as brightly as a million suns. Please remove the obstacles from my duties.” That’s an _awesome_ prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/39 "2011-02-07T19:12:20Z")
I can only do talk-see in Hindi, and don’t know any Sanskrut at all, so that may not be an exact or even broadly accurate translation. It’s how it was explained to me as a kid. The only parts I know are right are “obstacles”, “trunk”, and “million suns”. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420/40 "2011-02-07T19:23:45Z")
Yeah, that’s my new favorite prayer! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-acceptable-would-the-lords-prayer-be-to-non-christians/570420.md?page=3)