# How accurate are referee ball placements in football? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 16, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811 "2011-10-16T13:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811/21 "2011-10-26T13:11:11Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > The chains are dead nuts accurate. It’s the spot that isn’t. Until they put sensors in the ball, the spot will never be that accurate. However, once the officials place the ball, without a challenge, there is an unspoken agreement from the teams that the placement is appropriate and accurate for the purposes of beginning the next play and determining first down. If both teams agree that the placement is correct, then you can measure with the chains down to the millimeter, and feel comfortable that you’re not doing something ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811/22 "2011-10-27T10:31:24Z")
It doesn’t usually come down to a game-changer but what about the spotting the ball when the punter kicks it out of bounds? In this case, the ref has to determine at which point the ball crossed the side line and out of play. I don’t know if the officials practice making this call (I’m sure they do) but I’ve always figure the placement of the ball is wildly “inconsistent” to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811/23 "2011-10-27T12:41:01Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Until they put sensors in the ball, the spot will never be that accurate. Just wondering… how will the sensor system know exactly what moment the runner was downed? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811/24 "2011-10-27T12:59:06Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > It doesn’t usually come down to a game-changer but what about the spotting the ball when the punter kicks it out of bounds? > > In this case, the ref has to determine at which point the ball crossed the side line and out of play. I don’t know if the officials practice making this call (I’m sure they do) but I’ve always figure the placement of the ball is wildly “inconsistent” to say the least. Check posts 9 & 10. garygnu gave a pretty good answer. ---
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811/25 "2011-10-27T15:37:47Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > practice making this call (I’m sure they do) While I’m sure there’s some crew out there that spends some time punting balls out of bounds and practicing the mechanics of establishing the spot, for the most part the only practice officials get is that we are working games of all levels during the week, but that Jr High game on Monday - with 2 or 3 other officials who probably are not on your crew for Friday, Saturday or Sunday is hardly adequate practice for most situations. That said, there’s only two types of kick plays: routine and nightmare. For nightmare plays you just cross your fingers, hold your breath, and hope your past experience is a good guide. A kick that sails well out of bounds, in a case where the spot really matters, can be a nightmare play. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811/26 "2011-10-27T22:22:10Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > The NFL and the NCAA could make the the first downs accurate. A small sensor in the ball could be entirely accurate. Hell, they can use different balls for kicking and regular play, why can’t they have a sensor in the ball and eliminate the chains except for visual use for the audience? That would still leave an element of judgement - when the runner was down. The ball will be moving the entire time, the player will be fighting for inches, he’ll probably drop the ball a few feet ahead when the play is over, etc. You’d need to correlate the exact time he was down with the sensor positioning of the ball, and that’s not always easy to do. Players would deliberately try to move the ball forward after they knew they were down trying to trick them into thinking the sensor got that far ahead during the play. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811/27 "2011-10-27T22:38:30Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > That would still leave an element of judgement - when the runner was down. The ball will be moving the entire time, the player will be fighting for inches, he’ll probably drop the ball a few feet ahead when the play is over, etc. You’d need to correlate the exact time he was down with the sensor positioning of the ball, and that’s not always easy to do. Players would deliberately try to move the ball forward after they knew they were down trying to trick them into thinking the sensor got that far ahead during the play. Electric kneepads and elbowpads in all the players. And Buttpads. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811/28 "2011-10-28T07:36:29Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Just wondering… how will the sensor system know exactly what moment the runner was downed? Give the refs a clicker. The clicker will record the exact position of the ball within the field at any given time the clicker is pressed. Not sure if said technology exists, but that’s what I’d do. If it works in three dimensions it could assist in the “punt out of bounds” scenario also. Just take the X-Coordinate when it crossed the sideline and Bob’s your uncle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-accurate-are-referee-ball-placements-in-football/599811.md?page=1)