# How Afraid are All the Democrats. . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 13, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671 "2012-03-13T18:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/41 "2012-03-15T02:16:11Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > …Romney would have to radically change course to appeal to independents, which is going to be tough to do since he already has a reputation as a flip-flopper… I don’t understand your logic. Romney is an _experienced_ flip flopper, it will be much easier for him. He won’t even break stride while denying everything he said over the past year. He must be counting on some kind of Jedi hand wave – which will work on many many people. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/42 "2012-03-15T05:56:02Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I don’t understand your logic. Romney is an _experienced_ flip flopper, it will be much easier for him. He won’t even break stride while denying everything he said over the past year. > > He must be counting on some kind of Jedi hand wave – which will work on many many people. _psst_ The Daily Show has Tivo. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/43 "2012-03-15T05:58:14Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > On the other hand, to a casual observer, there isn’t much difference between a “flip-flopper” and a “moderate”. So it may be pretty easy for him to convince a large percentage of independents that he’s a moderate. Huh? One can be a steadfast moderate. Romney has flipped back and forth from fairly left wing to very right wing positions. If you take the mean of his positions you get moderate, but the standard deviation is way up there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/44 "2012-03-15T06:10:12Z")
You telling me that there are standards for being a deviant? Shit, what’s the point, then? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/45 "2012-03-15T06:18:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It would not be accurate to characterize my state of mind as “afraid,” in any real sense. I will confess to a bit of frustration with the incessant attention being paid to the race for the Republican nomination. It takes the focus off the fact that it is vitally important that the United States NEVER AGAIN elect a Republican to the Presidency. And, just so we won’t be a one-party republic like Mexico under the PRI, let the Dems henceforth compete, and alternate in the WH, with the Socialists. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/46 "2012-03-15T13:08:35Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > … Romney would have to radically change course to appeal to independents… I am not so sure. The WSJ has an article today making a cogent point: he is winning ugly but his strength is highest in the the swing states (with Colorado being the “glaring” exception) and in particular in swing counties that end up deciding elections: > [@](#): > > such as Clark County in Nevada, home to Las Vegas, and Ohio’s Franklin County, where Columbus is located. It depends on how the economy is doing near Election Day. Romney’s general election approach will not be on the social issues that he has clumsily tried and failed to pander to; it will be jobs. And the risk to Team Obama of trying to make social causes the issue is revving up the Right’s social issue voters to bother to come out to vote against Obama even though they do not like Romney, while those issues won’t matter as much as the economy does to the swing voters. As long as the economy continues to recover Romney has little case to make with the swing voter … but this recovery is too fragile still to not be a little worried that a bad jobs report could come out just in time for the election. I am expecting an Obama rout, but November is still a long way away. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/47 "2012-03-15T19:23:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You telling me that there are standards for being a deviant? Shit, what’s the point, then? Hush. Mormon secret. You only find out in the Temple. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/48 "2012-03-15T19:27:13Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I am not so sure. The WSJ has an article today making a cogent point: he is winning ugly but his strength is highest in the the swing states (with Colorado being the “glaring” exception) and in particular in swing counties that end up deciding elections: Are they talking the primaries? Because swing states by definition are going to be more centrist than non-swing states, and Romney, despite is best efforts, is still more centrist than the others. So during the primaries he’s clearly going to do better in swing states, though he should be doing even better than he is. In November he is going to have to swing back towards the center while not losing the right who is already suspicious of him, and while convincing the center that he really means it this time. Romney hasn’t seemed to be able to lie nearly convincingly enough to pull it off. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/49 "2012-03-15T20:12:31Z")
If I were Romney I would be really worried about this [poll](http://www.pollingreport.com/wh12.htm)about whether the candidates understand the needs of ordinary people. Obama scores 55-42 whereas Romney scores 31-59 which is a rather staggering gap. I think the idea of Romney as an out-of-touch plutocrat has become firmly entrenched in these primaries through a combination of the Bain attacks by Perry and Gingrich and Romney’s own gaffes like the $10,000 bet. The two likely scenarios for the economy are a continuation of a moderate recovery or a slowdown with a few weak job reports without quite a double-dip. I think Obama will win comfortably in the first scenario but the second scenario will only give Romney a shot. Voters who don’t believe Romney cares about their well-being won’t vote for him just because the economy is sluggish. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/50 "2012-03-15T20:15:41Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > The two likely scenarios for the economy are a continuation of a moderate recovery or a slowdown with a few weak job reports without quite a double-dip. **BO** -ring!!! Give me Boomtimes or give me a Great Depression! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/51 "2012-03-15T21:54:40Z")
Because of the high unemployment rate and the rise in the national debt it is difficult to be enthusiastic about President Obama. ☹ Because policies advocated by Republican presidential candidates would almost certainly raise both the unemployment rate and the national debt it is difficult not to be afraid of Obama’s rivals. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/52 "2012-03-16T01:00:07Z")
[Here’s Fox news on gas prices in 2008](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UzEnKdBAb_o). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/53 "2012-03-16T01:04:19Z")
In case anybody is wondering what **tullsterx** is going on about, Fox News was apparently covering Obama’s allegedly sinking poll numbers pretty heavily a couple of days ago. [John Stewart](http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/jon-stewart-compares-fox-news-to-a-bunch-of-crying-babies.php) could only laugh. Back in reality, Romney is polling ahead of Obama at the moment, though there have been a lot of fluctuations and Obama has been leading for most of this year: [http://polltracker.talkingpointsmemo.com/contests/us-president-12](http://polltracker.talkingpointsmemo.com/contests/us-president-12) Among those actually laying money on the outcome, Obama is given a 60% chance of victory. I personally think that’s a touch high. The funny thing though is that _modern conservatives don’t want to hear any of this_. When they turn on the news, they don’t want to be informed, _they want to be reassured_. So that’s what Fox News delivers to the muppets. More substantively, Fox News recently reported that the Obama’s health care reform has gone up in cost. In fact that’s not the case: Fox News was comparing a [2012-2021 report to a 2012-2022 report](http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/03/cost-obamacare-has-gone-down-not). Yes, they are that lame: they are comparing an eleven year window to a 10 year window. Make the apples to apples comparison and the CBO actually reports declining costs. The funny thing is that you can point stuff like this out to modern conservatives and they don’t get disillusioned with Fox News. They keep watching it because it serves their odd but expansive emotional needs. Those needs outweigh their inclination to be informed. Nobody with serious business or policy interests should watch Fox News, except for marketing purposes. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/54 "2012-03-16T02:53:55Z")
Minor pedantic point, but he goes by “Jon Stewart”. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/55 "2012-03-17T07:22:36Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Nobody with serious business or policy interests should watch Fox News, except for marketing purposes. If it matters to know the difference between what is true and false it is important to know. Otherwise, one can afford to believe what one wants to believe. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/56 "2012-03-17T19:30:28Z")
On important social and economic issues like contraception, abortion, raising taxes on the rich, and not cutting middle class entitlements most Americans agree with President Obama, rather than his Republican rivals. Obama may lose the election because of persistent high unemployment, but policies advocated by Republicans have never reduced unemployment in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/57 "2012-03-19T11:34:29Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > On the other hand, to a casual observer, there isn’t much difference between a “flip-flopper” and a “moderate”. So it may be pretty easy for him to convince a large percentage of independents that he’s a moderate. I agree. His problem with the Right is that they don’t trust him. They’re worried that he’ll govern more moderately than he campaigns. If the independents think the same thing they may decide he’s a safe choice. They already have an example in Obama who governs more moderately than his campaign. In the end it’s who they trust more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/58 "2012-03-19T14:15:52Z")
> [@Batfish](#): > > In the end it’s who they trust more. Romney’s problem is that nobody trusts him **or** mistrusts him. Low expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/59 "2012-03-19T14:30:09Z")
I’m picturing a new sitcom: _Everyone Mistrusts Romney_ ---
**Author:** ![Sawyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Sawyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sawyer)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671/60 "2012-03-19T15:52:33Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > I apologize for my opening trollishness. I was just inspired by all of the pro-democrat trollish threads with Republican in the title. > > And I assumed everyone here knows about the CBS poll that was just announced that give Obama his lowest approval rating of any major poll so far, 41%. And this 41% was listed in the link provided by the first response posted. > > Personally, I think this lowest poll is due to high gas prices and lots of global tension. And its one of these things that the President gets credit for or blame for regardless of what he does in a lot of ways. Sure. Any current drop in those poll numbers is a direct response to the price at the pump. We should all know the reasons and none have anything to do with Obama. Drilling more on public land (I believe it is at a high on private land) won’t change a thing short term. The Prez and the PM of Brittan discussed tapping reserves so he’s not sitting on his hands. I do know there’s a lot of saber rattling at Iran right now and that isn’t going to bring the price down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-afraid-are-all-the-democrats/615671.md?page=2)