# How ancient people counted with their hands **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 14, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092 "2012-06-14T00:42:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/1 "2012-06-14T00:42:58Z")
How ancient people counted with their hands I found this description on a Straight Dope site, but there appears to be something wrong with the phrasing. “And the outside surfaces of each hand, two per hand. That gives six counting points per hand “（see full quotation below”) The four spaces between the fingers I understand. Where are the other sites on the surface of the hand that make up 6 counting points per hand? “The ancients counted on the spaces between the fingers. four spaces per hand, eight total. And the outside surfaces of each hand, two per hand. That gives six counting points per hand and twelve total. For them base twelve is equally natural.” davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/2 "2012-06-14T00:49:20Z")
Reported for duplicates ---
**Author:** ![AHarris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@AHarris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHarris)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/3 "2012-06-14T01:16:29Z")
Based on you description, it sounds like the other numbers were: 1. The outside of the little finger 2. The outside of the thumb So the would have counted something like this (rather than counting each digit): Left Hand : 1, [little finger], 2, [ring finger], 3, [middle finger], 4, [index finger], 5, [thumb], 6 Right Hand: 7, [thumb], 8, [index finger], 9, [middle finger], 10, [ring finger], 11, [little finger], 12 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/4 "2012-06-14T03:22:51Z")
[Moderating] **davidmich** , stop starting new threads on the same topic. This is the fourth one now. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/5 "2012-06-14T09:53:03Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderating] > > **davidmich** , stop starting new threads on the same topic. This is the fourth one now. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Pretty soon we’ll need two hands to count your hand-counting threads. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/6 "2012-06-14T11:52:08Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Pretty soon we’ll need two hands to count your hand-counting threads. Obviously a “Need Answer Fast” situation. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/7 "2012-06-14T12:30:38Z")
I’ve posted this explanation for why base 12 (and added bonus of base 60) before: Count the finger segments of the four long fingers (three per finger) with your thumb - one dozen. Put up the thumb on the other hand to signify that dozen, and keep counting the other hand’s finger segments with your thumb and put up another finger on the other hand for each dozen you’ve counted. You get to five dozens, i.e. sixty. Great for counting up decently sized groups of things in a potentially distracting environment - keep your fingers in position, say three fingers up on one hand and and thumb held to the next to last finger segment and you know you were up to 3 dozen 11 even if you get distracted for a bit. No need to start all over again. My original source for this explanation was George Ifrah’s “A Universal History of Numbers” and that is the source cited in the [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagesimal) explanation that states the same thing: > [@](#): > > It is possible for people to count on their fingers to 12 using one hand only, with the thumb pointing to each finger bone on the four fingers in turn. A traditional counting system still in use in many regions of Asia works in this way, and could help to explain the occurrence of numeral systems based on 12 and 60 besides those based on 10, 20 and 5. In this system, the one (usually right) hand counts repeatedly to 12, displaying the number of iterations on the other (usually left), until five dozens, i. e. the 60, are full. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/8 "2012-06-14T12:40:26Z")
Does the Count-on-Fingers versus the Count-between-Fingers indicate whether a given ancient culture was patriarchal or matriarchal? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/9 "2012-06-14T13:10:46Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > How ancient people counted with their hands > I found this description on a Straight Dope site, but there appears to be something wrong with the phrasing. “And the outside surfaces of each hand, two per hand. That gives six counting points per hand “（see full quotation below”) The four spaces between the fingers I understand. Where are the other sites on the surface of the hand that make up 6 counting points per hand? > “The ancients counted on the spaces between the fingers. four spaces per hand, eight total. And the outside surfaces of each hand, two per hand. That gives six counting points per hand and twelve total. For them base twelve is equally natural.” > > davidmich That is an odd image. I know Indians count each division in each finger, which makes 15 slots per hand, but I didn’t know about Base 12. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/10 "2012-06-14T14:02:19Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > … I didn’t know about Base 12. You probably really do. It’s why we in English have “eleven, twelve” rather than “oneteen, twoteen”; why we often count by dozens, have 12 pence in a shilling, have 12 inches in a foot, have twelve troy ounces in a pound, have twelve hours round the clock, so on. Base twelve is an ancient finger counting system. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/11 "2012-06-14T14:05:29Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You probably really do. > > It’s why we in English have “eleven, twelve” rather than “oneteen, twoteen”; why we often count by dozens, have 12 pence in a shilling, have 12 inches in a foot, have twelve troy ounces in a pound, have twelve hours round the clock, so on. > > Base twelve is an ancient finger counting system. Most likely, and most likely the words are in Hindi, so I don’t know the comparison. You are probably right. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/12 "2012-06-14T14:20:03Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > That is an odd image. I know Indians count each division in each finger, which makes 15 slots per hand, but I didn’t know about Base 12. My Indian relatives count 16 on a hand. They count with the tip of the left thumb – tip, two creases, and base of each non-thumb finger. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/13 "2012-06-14T14:43:19Z")
Whatever happened to good old [Chisanbop](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chisanbop)? Turns out it’s a lot newer than I thought (1940’s, Korea) but I still use it all the time, learned it as a wee tyke in the mid-70s. Great for quick figuring too. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-ancient-people-counted-with-their-hands/625092/14 "2012-06-14T14:45:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My Indian relatives count 16 on a hand. They count with the tip of the left thumb – tip, two creases, and base of each non-thumb finger. I am trying to figure this one out. So, on your pinky, for example, you have four counts? That’s weird to me. 🙂 We just count the spaces!