# How and when did Democrats and Republicans switch places? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232 "2016-02-05T15:06:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/121 "2016-02-09T18:55:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > . . . and many non-racists also opposed minimum wage laws, for being a crime against basic economics. :rolleyes: N.B.: [It ain’t.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Minimum_wage) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/122 "2016-02-09T18:56:51Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The minimum wage is an issue where the effects and the side effects have switched. When it was originally proposed hurting black employment was the intended effect and helping unions was the unintended side effect. Now helping unions is the intended effect and hurting black employment is the unintended side effect. An effect you have yet to demonstrate exists or ever existed. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/123 "2016-02-09T19:08:52Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The minimum wage is an issue where the effects and the side effects have switched…Now helping unions is the intended effect The minimum wages doesn’t help unions much. It enacts into law something for everyone that therefore can’t be negotiated for only for union-represented employees, making supporting a union that less compelling. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/124 "2016-02-09T19:19:26Z")
> [@yanceylebeef](#): > > “Democrat Party” Stopped reading right there. Why? I use the term, and I have been a Democrat longer than you have, I’ll bet. Even had a spot on a Delegate list for Scoop Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/125 "2016-02-09T19:22:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why? I use the term, and I have been a Democrat longer than you have, I’ll bet. Even had a spot on a Delegate list for Scoop Jackson. The term is now used mostly by a certain brand of Republican in a derisive manner. You should probably stop. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/126 "2016-02-09T20:00:44Z")
It’s a slur, intended to show derision towards anyone from the Democratic Party. For a nice little rundown read this New Yorker article from 2006. [The IC factor.](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/08/07/the-ic-factor) My favorite quote…"In the conservative media, the phenomenon feeds more voraciously the closer you get to the mucky, sludgy bottom. “Democrat Party” is standard jargon on right-wing talk radio and common on winger Web sites like [NewsMax.com](http://NewsMax.com), which blue-pencils Associated Press dispatches to de-“ic” references to the Party of F.D.R. and J.F.K. (The resulting impression that “Democrat Party” is O.K. with the A.P. is as phony as a North Korean travel brochure.) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/127 "2016-02-09T20:10:45Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The minimum wages doesn’t help unions much. It enacts into law something for everyone that therefore can’t be negotiated for only for union-represented employees, making supporting a union that less compelling. [Many](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324048904578318541000422454)low skill unions have negotiated wages that are a certain percentage or a certain amount above minimum wage. They also have negotiated some agreements that reopens wage negotiations whenever the minimum wage is changed. Thus a change in the minimum wage is good for union members. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/128 "2016-02-09T20:13:29Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > [Many](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324048904578318541000422454)low skill unions have negotiated wages that are a certain percentage or a certain amount above minimum wage. They also have negotiated some agreements that reopens wage negotiations whenever the minimum wage is changed. Thus a change in the minimum wage is good for union members. Interesting. But they don’t have to peg their wages to the minimum. I’ll bet if it goes up alot, management will balk next time negotiations come around. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/129 "2016-02-09T20:39:50Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Unsurprisingly, you missed my point. > > _Racist hiring preferences_ hurt black people. Enforcing standards for minimal compensation and conditions in all jobs, does not. > > Minimum wage law helps black people. As with slavery abolition, it means that some white people no longer have means they can countenance in employing black people. I call that all to the good. Racist hiring preferences hurt black people and they also hurt people who practice racist hiring preferences. If white people are more in demand for hiring then their price goes up. So people who hire must make the decision between hiring black people for cheaper wages and making more money and hiring more expensive white employees and making less money. Thus racist businesses will be out competed by greedy businesses. A famous example is pro baseball. After adding a black player to their roster the Brooklyn Dodgers went to 7 out of the next 10 world series. Other teams saw this and the league rapidly desegregated. They had to choose between racism and greed and chose greed. By outlawing cheap labor, minimum wage laws make it so businesses can be racist and greedy. Black teenage unemployment is 34.5% much higher than the white teenage unemployment rate of 20.9%. This despite the fact that black teenagers are more likely to be in poverty and need a job. Before minimum wage laws black teenage unemployment was lower than it was for whites. This makes a difference because teenagers who work make more money later in life. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/130 "2016-02-09T20:56:58Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The term is now used mostly by a certain brand of Republican in a derisive manner. You should probably stop. Fuck them. They aint the boss of me. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/131 "2016-02-09T21:15:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: > > N.B.: [It ain’t.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Minimum_wage) In practice it doesn’t do the kind of damage it does in theory. 😃 But it does actually make some people unemployable. If you’re labor doesn’t generate sufficient revenue to support your minimum wage, you won’t work. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/132 "2016-02-09T21:30:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why? I use the term, and I have been a Democrat longer than you have, I’ll bet. Even had a spot on a Delegate list for Scoop Jackson. Because you don’t want people thinking you belong to that **other** organization, the [Democrat Party](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Democrat_Party). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/133 "2016-02-09T22:16:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Because you don’t want people thinking you belong to that **other** organization, the [Democrat Party](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Democrat_Party). From your link: “The use of “Democrat Party” as an epithet by Republicans has arguably _led to oversensitivity among some Democratic activists._…” Get over it, fellow Dems. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/134 "2016-02-09T23:17:23Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The minimum wage is a policy that hurts black people [snip] What do you think of prevailing wages? Labor unions? Wage regulations for federal contractors? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/135 "2016-02-09T23:24:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why? I use the term, and I have been a Democrat longer than you have, I’ll bet. Even had a spot on a Delegate list for Scoop Jackson. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The term is now used mostly by a certain brand of Republican in a derisive manner. You should probably stop. I once, after learning that Democrats hate this construction, worked phones getting out the vote for Democrats. I know I slipped up once and said “Democrat Party” instead of “Democrats” or “Democratic Party.” I don’t think it went over well, and I was inwardly kicking myself after. But it’s such a stupid thing to get upset over. If a conservative really wants to insult you, he can just call you a politically correct, tax-and-spend, job-killing, soft on crime, anti-life, and/or liberal Democrat. Why make a point of dropping “ic” in the adjective form? They only pull this passive-aggressive stuff because it gets a rise out of you pink-fingered progressive pantywaists. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/136 "2016-02-10T04:18:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The thing is, racism is not something you compromise on if you have any principles, nor can supporters tolerate compromise on racism. What supporters can tolerate even less is actively pursuing policies they called racist. > > So what needs to happen is that given what actually happened in the 1990s, not just with the Clinton administration but with most of the Democratic Party minus its hardcore left wing, Democrats need to quit with the “Southern Strategy” shtick. Yes, the Southern Strategy was real, and it was designed to appeal to racist whites. We own that, no getting around that. Where Democrats go wrong is in accusing us of focusing on “dog whistle” politics. That one was weak tea before the 1990s, after the 1990s it’s just inexcusable. Democrats just need to admit that conservatives were right about those issues. I love how, according to Republicans, the Republican party always _used_ to be racist, but is totally over that now. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/137 "2016-02-10T05:28:02Z")
Much like the Democrats, yes. At this point, I suspect that an majority of politically active white Americans within either party are at least somewhat racist, but resent being called out on it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/138 "2016-02-10T14:29:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Fuck them. They aint the boss of me. Of course they aren’t. You’re free to keep using the word. Don’t be surprised if you have to go through this long process of explaining that you aren’t a toothless redneck rightwinger every time you do though - if you even get the chance. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/139 "2016-02-10T14:30:56Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I once, after learning that Democrats hate this construction, worked phones getting out the vote for Democrats. I know I slipped up once and said “Democrat Party” instead of “Democrats” or “Democratic Party.” I don’t think it went over well, and I was inwardly kicking myself after. > > But it’s such a stupid thing to get upset over. If a conservative really wants to insult you, he can just call you a politically correct, tax-and-spend, job-killing, soft on crime, anti-life, and/or liberal Democrat. Why make a point of dropping “ic” in the adjective form? They only pull this passive-aggressive stuff because it gets a rise out of you pink-fingered progressive pantywaists. 😉 I don’t get upset about it. I just read the code. Someone says that and I know where he’s coming from, and I file it away for later use. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232/140 "2016-02-10T16:01:19Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > What do you think of prevailing wages? Labor unions? Wage regulations for federal contractors? Prevailing wages and wage regulations for federal contractors are horrible ideas regardless of their racist origins. When the government buys something it should try to get the most done for the least money, anything else is just legalized graft. Labor unions, apart from their racist histories, are good ideas that are a part of the first amendment freedom to assemble. The current labor laws regarding unions are awful, however. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-and-when-did-democrats-and-republicans-switch-places/745232.md?page=8)