# How are Civil War re-enactors handling the controversy these days? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481 "2017-08-23T19:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/21 "2017-08-24T16:17:34Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Since there seem to be a couple of reenactors in this thread, can I just ask someone involved what the point of these things is? I don’t really see the fascination in it. Is it some sort of live-action roleplay, only with guns instead of foam swords? Are these battles and events something to be celebrated? As a German, I couldn’t see myself heading to Russia an reenacting the Battle of Stalingrad to connect with my heritage and history. Why do people glorify one of the (I can only assume) darkest periods of the United States - even if you’re on the “winning team”, much less the confederacy. > > Not trying to slam anyone or crap on anyone’s hobby, it’s just genuinely mystifying to me. It’s certainly not something unique to the US - battle re-enactments are very popular in the UK as well - our own English civil war is a popular theme, and the one before that (battle of Bosworth, ending the Wars of the Roses). I’ve also seen WW2 re-enactments. It’s living history, which is of interest to lots of people. And living _significant moments_ in history too, not simply learning how to live in a mud hut. I understand, if you’re anything like my German friends, that you’ve been raised to be fairly repulsed by war, given your history. Americans and Brits don’t have the same perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/22 "2017-08-24T16:30:18Z")
As it happens, my Civil War reenactment unit once took part in a city park event with reenactors from various other historical periods. There was a unit of WWII Wehrmacht mountain troops, swastika insignia and all. They were at pains to explain they weren’t Nazis, but just wanted to teach people about history. Eh. I know I could never wear a uniform like that, even for pretend. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/23 "2017-08-24T16:37:53Z")
I suspect the number of Civil War re-enactors in Confederate gray going out to eat at restaurants while still in uniform\* has declined perceptibly. Given people’s ignorance of history, I wouldn’t discount acts of harassment and violence against those in Union uniforms. \*as described in the book “Confederates In The Attic”. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/24 "2017-08-24T16:50:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Actors get paid. I didn’t say they were smart actors. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/25 "2017-08-24T17:02:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Actors get paid. Community theater will be thrilled to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/26 "2017-08-24T17:26:22Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > It’s not condemnation or bullying. As far as I can tell, no one even complained. It was entirely proactive, a play it safe move from the PR department. > > If there were some other DrCube who caused a controversy which ended with a terrorist attack in which people died, I’d have no problem swapping assignments with another coworker so my name on TV didn’t aggravate fresh wounds in that same region the very next weekend. > > It would be like if some _other_ guy named Ben Laden was supposed to speak at a conference in New York in late September 2001. It’s stupid, but with that name in a public facing job, it’s just easier to avoid the place entirely for awhile. I hope you’re not comparing General Robert E. Lee to a terrorist. At any rate, I don’t think the two situations are comparable. Heck, if anyone was a terrorist, it was General Sherman. I daresay that the people who are pulling down statues do think the Confederates were on a level with terrorists. But that’s in their own heads. If we erase the Confederacy, we erase the war itself, and that’s just as ridiculous from the Union standpoint. The Union soldiers can’t be heroes if they were fighting no one. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/27 "2017-08-24T17:44:36Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > So people should give in to bullies? > > I really, really don’t like where this is going. Condemning someone for having a “southern” name is just as wrong as condemning them for having a name that’s “too black”. In the case of the ESPN announcer, [that’d technically be an “eastern” name.](https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-08/22/22/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-03/sub-buzz-15881-1503455043-1.jpg?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto) > [@Rilchiam](#): > > I hope you’re not comparing General Robert E. Lee to a terrorist. At any rate, I don’t think the two situations are comparable. Heck, if anyone was a terrorist, it was General Sherman. I don’t know if **DrCube** was comparing Lee to terrorists, [but I sure will](http://fair-use.org/national-anti-slavery-standard/1866/04/14/robert-e-lee-his-brutality-to-his-slaves). Comparing Lee to Sherman is the real insult - Lee wasn’t fit to clean Sherman’s boots > [@](#): > > I daresay that the people who are pulling down statues do think the Confederates were on a level with terrorists. But that’s in their own heads. If we erase the Confederacy, we erase the war itself, and that’s just as ridiculous from the Union standpoint. The Union soldiers can’t be heroes if they were fighting no one. “Pulling down statues” != “erasing the Confederacy.” The point isn’t to pretend that it never happened. The point is to stop pretending people like Robert E. Lee were honorable or admirable. They were traitors and slavers, and need to be remembered as such. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/28 "2017-08-24T18:01:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In the case of the ESPN announcer, [that’d technically be an “eastern” name.](https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-08/22/22/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-03/sub-buzz-15881-1503455043-1.jpg?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto) Yes, I know it’s an Asian name, in his case. Which makes this even more ridiculous. > [@](#): > > I don’t know if **DrCube** was comparing Lee to terrorists, [but I sure will](http://fair-use.org/national-anti-slavery-standard/1866/04/14/robert-e-lee-his-brutality-to-his-slaves). Comparing Lee to Sherman is the real insult - Lee wasn’t fit to clean Sherman’s boots. > > “Pulling down statues” != “erasing the Confederacy.” The point isn’t to pretend that it never happened. The point is to stop pretending people like Robert E. Lee were honorable or admirable. They were traitors and slavers, and need to be remembered as such. Okay, I won’t defend abusing slaves. I won’t defend having slaves, as long as the same standards are applied to Washington and Jefferson. But traitors? Sorry to tell you, the Confederate states had the right to secede. **And the war was about states’ rights.** ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/29 "2017-08-24T18:09:06Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Sorry to tell you, the Confederate states had the right to secede. **And the war was about states’ rights.** Cite and cite? 'Cause countercites abound, as you know. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/30 "2017-08-24T18:11:15Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > battle re-enactments are very popular in the UK as well… I’ve also seen WW2 re-enactments. The Batley Townswomen’s Guild is famous for them. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/31 "2017-08-24T18:19:10Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > …But traitors? Sorry to tell you, the Confederate states had the right to secede. **And the war was about states’ rights.** This is going to get far afield from the topic, but it’d get a lot of traction in Great Debates. (The IMHO retort is that this is not a correct statement. The war was about Slavery, as reflected in the explanations given by the Confederacy. They were actually anti-states’ rights, in that the Confederate constitution expressly forbade an individual stare from ending slavery within its borders). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/32 "2017-08-24T18:47:37Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Okay, I won’t defend abusing slaves. I won’t defend having slaves, as long as the same standards are applied to Washington and Jefferson. But traitors? Sorry to tell you, the Confederate states had the right to secede. **And the war was about states’ rights.** Is it your claim that the majority of the residents of those Southern States wanted to secede? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/33 "2017-08-24T19:04:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Cite and cite? > > 'Cause countercites abound, as you know. [Here](https://www.civilwar.org/learn/articles/states-rights) [you](http://www.historynet.com/states-rights-civil-war) [go](http://www.civilwarhome.com/statesrights.html). **hajario** , there were plenty of enlisted men in the Confederate Army who did not own slaves. They were too poor, or not in a line of work that required them. I’m not defending slavery, just pointing out that being white and Southern did not automatically mean being a slaveowner. But since you bring it up, there were enough people in northern Virginia who did not want to secede; enough to establish the state of West Virginia. Though that was less about principle and more about the money of the thing: they had close financial ties to Pennsylvania, a Union state. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/34 "2017-08-24T19:13:50Z")
**Rilchiam** et al., Nothing wrong with you having the debate, but this isn’t the thread for it. Please drop the sidetrack in here. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/35 "2017-08-25T03:17:43Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Since there seem to be a couple of reenactors in this thread, can I just ask someone involved what the point of these things is? I don’t really see the fascination in it. Is it some sort of live-action roleplay, only with guns instead of foam swords? Are these battles and events something to be celebrated? The point varies from person to person. For some of my friends its an adult way of playing army like they did as kids. It is dress-up and escape from every day life. And since you can make most of the things yourself if you want to, it gives you a real chance to fill some free time. For some of us its serious science; there are a lot of things we can learn from trying to live what the written and archeological record shows. Call it a form of applied archeology or experimental science. Mostly I do French & Indian; one thing we knew from the written and physical record is that the French carried a LOT of sponges into the interior. No real indication why but there they were in the manifests and in the ground at various sites. There were a lot of various theories from using them to clean yourself with vinegar to something related to the way they chinked their cabins. Then a few of us decided to make a couple birch-bark canoes sewn and rigged as the French learned from the woodlands Natives they were friendly with and make a trip carrying a load like they would have. No matter how careful you are, water gets in the canoe and trying to bail it out with a tin cup just makes leaks and doesn’t accomplish much. But a sponge ---- worked like a charm. Suck the water up and hold it over the side to empty. And if you were passing a point (say enemy territory) where silence is good you can hold it at the surface and squeeze it out making no noise. Other people took what we found and put the pieces together and judging by how/where they were listed in inventories (with other canoe related supplies) it looks like we may just have learned something. As for celebrating specific battles; that depends on who you ask. As part of our 250th anniversary battles I was involved with the planning and execution of the Battle of Kittanning. The “English” really loved that one; it was their first major victory in that war especially with all the force being “colonials”. Some Natives weren’t as thrilled. But life is like that from time to time. Or as we often say here ---- your mileage may vary. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > I suspect the number of Civil War re-enactors in Confederate gray going out to eat at restaurants while still in uniform\* has declined perceptibly. > > Given people’s ignorance of history, I wouldn’t discount acts of harassment and violence against those in Union uniforms. > > \*as described in the book “Confederates In The Attic”. I knew a couple people from that book! Not a bad read really but an extreme side of the hobby. Where you go in uniform is the same today as it ever was; a lot depends on your location and the establishment. Since this thread started the other day I shot a couple e-mails around some friends more active in “Silly War” (as we call it) than I am and their behavior and habits have not changed much in the last 20-25 years. Some of the real Silvertips who go back to the Centennial (I was a drummer-boy at the end of that period) say that in some ways its gotten better. Back then someone in “butternut” was assumed to be Klan; now most people are aware enough of the hobby that you may have more understanding than you did 50+ years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/36 "2017-08-25T03:51:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > …as described in the book “Confederates In The Attic”. My favorite bit in that book was the sweet little old black lady in Charleston who, when asked about neo-Confederates today, said, “I don’t mind them remembering the Civil War, as long as they remember they _lost_ it.” ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/37 "2017-08-25T04:23:50Z")
I am not a re-enactor but a married couple that I work with are. We were just talking about this the other day. They got involved while learning more about their family members who fought in the war. Time and health are keeping them away from future events for awhile. I do not know if they plan to resume participating. The war happened right here in our own country where we live, not some foreign land, involving people we are directly related to. And it is pretty well documented too. Staying out of the war if you were of able age wasn’t much of an option. In generational terms the Civil War was just not so very long ago. My grandparents on father’s side were _married_ in 1898, born in the early 1880’s, died in 1970. These are not my great-grandparents, they were my dad’s parents. Dad’s grandparents, (my great), and that generation of relatives lived in Arkansas during the war. I don’t know much about what they did or which side that they were on but I think that it is interesting to think about how recent in family terms that was. No, I am not an ancient geezer, only 60. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/38 "2017-08-25T12:37:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Cite and cite? > > 'Cause countercites abound, as you know. Did the USA have the right to succeed? Those Americans were as much traitors as the southerners. And Sherman was a war criminal and was guilty of genocide (later in his career). His March to the sea was filled with murder, rape and pillage. In fact, it was the Nazi tactic as they invaded the Soviet Union. Don’t misunderstand me. I favor the North but also understand that our country was built on treason and the North has its own sins to atone. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/39 "2017-08-25T12:40:04Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > **Rilchiam** et al., > > Nothing wrong with you having the debate, but this isn’t the thread for it. Please drop the sidetrack in here. Thanks. Sorry, didnt see this post and can’t edit on my phone. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481/40 "2017-08-25T16:05:28Z")
A Cleveland _Plain Dealer_ article on the controversy: [Should Civil War re-enactments continue? Statue controversy concerns re-enactors (photos, video) - cleveland.com](http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/08/should_civil_war_re-enactments.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-civil-war-re-enactors-handling-the-controversy-these-days/794481.md?page=3)