# How are countries with UHC suffering (or not) economically because of UHC? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 1, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914 "2010-03-01T20:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/61 "2010-03-02T18:42:29Z")
Let’s look at this statement again: > [@](#): > > Many countries with UHC and other large government programs are right this very minute experiencing many of the long-term difficulties that are the results of big government. [Canadian dollar hits 6 week high](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadian-dollar-hits-six-week-high/article1486608/) > [@](#): > > The Canadian dollar (CAD/USD-I0.970.0080.88%) hit a six-week high Tuesday after the Bank of Canada signalled the economy is running at a hotter pace than it had anticipated. > > The currency strengthened almost a cent, to 96.80 cents (U.S.) from Monday’s close of 96.01 cents. The move comes after the loonie rose a full cent Monday as a report showed the economy grew by a greater-than-expected 5 per cent in the fourth quarter. I would have to conclude that Canada, a country with UHC and other large government programs\*\* IS NOT\*\* right this very minute experiencing any long-term difficulties that are the results of big government. Growth - greater than expected Unemployment - better than the US Currency - rising I would further say (as others have) that it is really difficult to parse the effects on the economy of having a UHC versus having a different system. The economy of a country is far too complex a system for us to make the simplistic statement I quoted above. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/62 "2010-03-02T18:51:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Gonna have to disagree with you there. If Europe had health care that was as high quality as ours, why would so many Europeans come to America to get treated for serious diseases? Sure, Canadian medicine are cheaper, but can you REALLY get the same quality of treatment in Canada as you can in the US? > > America is a capitalistic society. The state of mind of most people here revolves around Capitalism. If you can prove to me right now, with a straight face, the following list of items, I will gladly accept UHC: > > 1. There will be no difference in the number of people who wish to become doctors and are willing to pay for and go through medical school themselves if doctors made less money. > 2. There will be no reduction in the salary of doctors if the hospitals they work for were forced to accept smaller payments from health insurance companies, especially those run by the government. > 3. There will be an easy alternative to government-funded health care. > 4. Free health care will not be abused in the same way emergency rooms currently are. I think the U.K. might fit that pretty well, though with the NHS so old, figures aren’t really relevant. Being a doctor is still a popular career choice. There’s private healthcare as well. We do get health tourists, alas, but you can go to any doctor’s surgery if you need treatment. UHC makes sense. It’s just a question of the level of healthcare provided. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/63 "2010-03-02T19:31:06Z")
Christ. There are 33 million communists north of you that have managed quiet nicely to setup and run UHC at the provincial level with federal standards without being reduced to stick swinging savagery in a socialism induced hell hole. Honestly, if you can’t (or choose not to) figure out how to do it fine but stop claiming it as some sort of ideological victory. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/64 "2010-03-02T19:44:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Let’s look at this statement again: > > [Canadian dollar hits 6 week high](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadian-dollar-hits-six-week-high/article1486608/) > > I would have to conclude that Canada, a country with UHC and other large government programs\*\* IS NOT\*\* right this very minute experiencing any long-term difficulties that are the results of big government. > > Growth - greater than expected > Unemployment - better than the US > Currency - rising\ Don’t forget the stablest banking system in the world. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/65 "2010-03-02T20:07:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Gonna have to disagree with you there. If Europe had health care that was as high quality as ours, why would so many Europeans come to America to get treated for serious diseases? Sure, Canadian medicine are cheaper, but can you REALLY get the same quality of treatment in Canada as you can in the US? Yes you can. Even better if you are under employed. And you can afford it too. Got a cite for so many Europeans flocking to America for health care? Why do so many Americans travell abroad for [medical treatment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism) ? > [@](#): > > A forecast by Deloitte Consulting published in August 2008 projected that medical tourism originating in the US could jump by a factor of ten over the next decade. An estimated 750,000 Americans went abroad for health care in 2007, and the report estimated that a million and a half would seek health care outside the US in 2008. The growth in medical tourism has the potential to cost US health care providers billions of dollars in lost revenue.[9] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/66 "2010-03-02T20:16:36Z")
We have the best health care money can buy. Of course, if you don’t have any, you’re just as boned as if we used leeches and voodoo. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/67 "2010-03-02T20:39:23Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’ve never understood the fascination with how much the US spends on health care. Some people treat it as an argument in and of itself for UHC (which is what you seem to be doing). There’s a lot that goes into the percentage of GDP spent on health. I don’t see how it could possibly support an argument for UHC all by its lonesome. > > There are many explanations for higher health care costs in the US that do not support UHC: > > 1. Who spends more on health care–people that know they are sick or people that don’t? The former, usually. Therefore, one possible explanation of higher expenditures on health care in the US is that we are better at finding diseases and disorders. Thanks for the response - a lot more cogent than **Babale** ’s. For this one, there are two possibilities. We are either finding real diseases and disorders that the Europeans are missing, or we are spending money of phantom diseases and disorders that don’t exist in Europe. If the former, we should be seeing better outcomes here since the undiagnosed diseases should kill some people early. We aren’t, so we must be seeing the latter. That’s reasonable, since the drug companies have an incentive to create the perception of illness (like that scourge of mankind, restless leg syndrome) to sell pills. If I understand correctly drug companies can’t advertise in Europe (I saw none while I was there) so that could cut down on unnecessary medication. What is the purpose of advertising prescription medicine to consumers anyway? So, score one for UHC, or a tie at least. > [@](#): > > 1. Who spends more on health care–obese people or non-obese people? The former, usually. The US has a ton (har) of obese people. Assuming you are right about the obesity problem (and I think you are, I’m not bothering to check) obesity is a public health problem, a serious one. The current US free market system is not doing a good job on this one, is it? The drug industry has nothing to stop the problem, so they are not to blame. The food and fast food industry has segments making money off of the obese, so they are making it worse, and since diet plans are not regulated, quack ones can rake in money and not help solve the problem. The government doesn’t have that much incentive to do anything either. If the government were paying, wouldn’t there be more incentive to do things like force restaurants to post calorie counts in large friendly letters, remove junk from schools, and maybe even ban nasty fats? How does the UK do it? it is not like English food is fundamentally healthier than ours. > [@](#): > > 1. Some people like to drive BMWs, and some like to drive used Kias. If people are choosing to purchase the BMW of health care instead of the used Kia of health care, thus driving up the health care/GDP percentage. Given that there is only so much you can pay, even if you are rich, and the small number of the rich, I doubt this has a lot of impact. I don’t care how much Bill Gates is willing to pay for health care - if he doesn’t get sick, he doesn’t affect the numbers. He can also easily self-insure himself, though he is probably still covered under the Microsoft plan. > [@](#): > > The fact that we are less healthy does not mean we have worse health care. A lot more goes into the health of a population than the quality of the health care. That’s true, but we can only measure outcomes. I don’t think Americans are more satisfied with their system than Europeans. The exceptionalist argument - what is. is, because we are different somehow, can argue for anything. But even assuming our situation is a bit different, is it different enough to warrant spending huge chunks of GDP as indicated by my cite? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/68 "2010-03-02T20:46:31Z")
Ah, yes, the Microsoft plan. “You’re wetware is faulty. Contact your vendor.” ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/69 "2010-03-02T20:58:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > How many of those are teenagers who go to Mexico to get cheap abortions, and how many of those girls will get sick and even die because of it? You get what you pay for, after all. If you want to make such absurd claims could you even possibly cite some evidence to back them up? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/70 "2010-03-02T21:01:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Not an imaginary scenario-a hard reality. Teenagers, especially in California, do this quite often. Though that was a rhetorical question, as an exact figure would be quite difficult to come by, considering how those girls are unlikely to tell anyone about it. Yes, especially since abortion is prohibited meaning that those girls are not being attended to in legitimate clinics. So if you want to speak of medical care in México, please educate yourself before making such absurd statements. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/71 "2010-03-02T21:05:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Whoo, posts while I was typing. > And that is a much bigger problem with American society than anything health care related, although that’s a different debate. Let me just say that people who live off of their mortgage are asking to loose their home. Everyone was so shocked by the absurd claim that unemployment benefits go on forever that they missed this. Even before the recession, productivity growth in the past decade all went to the rich, with average salary increases not keeping up with inflation. People were encourage - by conservative reduction of interest rates - to borrow for consumption. Thus, the increase in debt and lack of savings. All part and parcel of the political philosophy that is against UHC. Though, since you bemoan deficits, I trust you agree that Reagan and Bush, who ran up big deficits in times of prosperity, are mostly responsible. And if you think that anyone can go out and find a job, you should really read a newspaper some time. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/72 "2010-03-02T21:08:10Z")
Read a factoid saying that if the minimum wage had kept pace with CEO’s earnings, burger flippers would be making $20/hr. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/73 "2010-03-02T22:53:53Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Christ. There are 33 million communists north of you that have managed quiet nicely to setup and run UHC at the provincial level with federal standards without being reduced to stick swinging savagery in a socialism induced hell hole. > > Honestly, if you can’t (or choose not to) figure out how to do it fine but stop claiming it as some sort of ideological victory. You can also include a further 25 million in the south western corner in the duck pond off the coast of California, who could justifiably claim to be doing even better in the economics stakes for even longer, burden of Medicare UHC notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/74 "2010-03-02T23:21:27Z")
The US taxpayer is already paying enough for universal health care - and isnt getting it !! see: [http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsg-02584.pdf](http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsg-02584.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/75 "2010-03-03T00:00:52Z")
> [@nicky](#): > > The US taxpayer is already paying enough for universal health care - and isnt getting it !! > > see: > [http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsg-02584.pdf](http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsg-02584.pdf) The numbers in that report make me weep for my country. Also embarrassed and ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/76 "2010-03-03T00:01:57Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’ve never understood the fascination with how much the US spends on health care. Some people treat it as an argument in and of itself for UHC (which is what you seem to be doing). There’s a lot that goes into the percentage of GDP spent on health. I don’t see how it could possibly support an argument for UHC all by its lonesome. > > There are many explanations for higher health care costs in the US that do not support UHC: > > 1. Who spends more on health care–people that know they are sick or people that don’t? The former, usually. Therefore, one possible explanation of higher expenditures on health care in the US is that we are better at finding diseases and disorders. > > 2. Who spends more on health care–obese people or non-obese people? The former, usually. The US has a ton (har) of obese people. > > 3. Some people like to drive BMWs, and some like to drive used Kias. If people are choosing to purchase the BMW of health care instead of the used Kia of health care, thus driving up the health care/GDP percentage. > > Why are any of these an argument for UHC? The third one is an argument against UHC (i.e., people should be allowed to pay more for health care if they choose to). > The fact that we are less healthy does not mean we have worse health care. A lot more goes into the health of a population than the quality of the health care. Whats wrong with the argument? A country that spends 17% of GDP on health care cannot compete with one that spends 10% of GDP on health care. The reason is that the second country has an extra 7% of GDP to spend on other investments. If we could cover everyone for 11% of GDP (which is high, most OECD nations spend 8-11%), that would free up about $900 billion a year. We could fund our entire military (about $700 billion) or our entire educational system (about $900 billion). So the choice is US healthcare or French healthcare & free education or military (pick one). We can’t compete since we have to waste so much national wealth on a health care system that doesn’t work any better (and by many standards are worse) than the systems in Canada, Japan, Germany, etc. Then you have all the companies who can set up shop here (and spend $9000 for a family policy for a worker) or go to Canada or Germany and spend $3000 because their insurance is cheaper and costs aren’t all dumped on employers. Our health care system is destroying our economy. A big reason it is an argument for UHC is that countries with UHC have an incentive to provide the highest quality care for the lowest cost. Private health care in the US is incentivized to provide the most expensive care possible. Lipitor is the best selling drug in the US, it costs about $60/month. There are several statins that can be bought generic for $2 to $30 a month instead of Lipitor. But the more Lipitor that sells, the better off companies do. The incentive system of a system like ours leads to a bloated, inefficient system. That is an argument for UHC, because a UHC system has an incentive to promote the highest quality/lowest cost care whereas ours tries to provide the most expensive care. 1. Do you have any evidence of this? If anything you’d expect the opposite. Because of unreliable primary care and fear of being labeled with a ‘pre-existing condition’ we have incentivized people to avoid being properly diagnosed. A proper diagnosis can be used as a technicality 10 years later to deny you health insurance. People know this. That is not a fear people in Europe have. 2. Obesity rates are high in Canada, Germany & the UK also. They still spend far far less on health care. Not only that, but obesity rates vary drastically by state. However the Northeast has among the lowest obesity rates, but the highest health care expenses. [http://calorielab.com/news/wp-images/post-images/fattest-states-2006-larger.jpg](http://calorielab.com/news/wp-images/post-images/fattest-states-2006-larger.jpg) [http://facts.kff.org/upload/jpg/enlarge/National\_Health\_Care\_Expenditures\_per\_Enrollee.jpg](http://facts.kff.org/upload/jpg/enlarge/National_Health_Care_Expenditures_per_Enrollee.jpg) 1. I would love a 2 tiered health care system. I’d take a Kia health care system over no health care. However it is not easy to separate the system out like that. You can do it with pharmaceuticals (pick generics and shop around) or elective procedures, but its not as easy with things like emergency care. Given the choice between no health care and 1994 level health care (excluding the last 16 years of advances) I’d pick 1994 health care. However we don’t have a 2 tiered system. We have outsourcing for elective surgery (going to Mexico, India, etc) and we have pharmaceutical shopping. But combined those 2 things probably only make up 20-30% of health spending. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/77 "2010-03-03T12:12:39Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > 1. Our health care system systematically dehumanizes us. People stay in miserable marriages to keep their health care, people get married solely for health care… The opposite is also true: some happily married couples are finding themselves having to divorce simply in order to keep some level of health care access for their children. Case in point: Couple To Divorce For Toddler’s Health Care Premature Son Could Qualify For TennCare Again If Family’s Income Drops [http://www.wsmv.com/news/21926148/detail.html](http://www.wsmv.com/news/21926148/detail.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/78 "2010-03-03T12:26:25Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I can find evidence that millions of people who live here want to leave to get health care. I’d be willing to bet they don’t WANT to leave to get health care, I’m sure they’d much rather get it closer to home, but they can’t afford it. Doesn’t do much good to have “the best health care in the world” if one can’t afford it. My mother spent ten years in pain from a crushed vertebra in her neck, gradually losing the use of her right arm, because her insurance company wouldn’t let her get it diagnosed and treated, and they decided that six months of physiotherapy was enough for anybody, surely she couldn’t possibly still be in pain after that. That a university professor making a decent salary, and a customer of a major health insurance company, couldn’t get a crushed vertebra diagnosed and treated for TEN YEARS is nothing short of appalling. Not until she was completely disabled and on Medicare could she get the diagnosis and surgery she needed to reduce her pain and try and get the use of her arm back, by which time she had racked up so many medical bills that her insurance would not cover, that she was nearly bankrupt and being harassed on a daily basis by debt collectors who screamed at her for not paying her bills, and who said in nearly so many words that she should have died rather than go to the doctor if she couldn’t pay for it. People should not have to descend into poverty in order to get access to health care. And they should not descend into poverty in the first place simply due to a lack of access to health care. The very first thing that needs to happen in health care reform, in my opinion, is that insurance companies need to be taken to task, firmly regulated and forced to stop taking advantage of people at the cost of their health and wellbeing. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/79 "2010-03-03T12:31:24Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Now, if he gets his 1200 a month, he pays his bills, keeps his apartment, and has enough to live on cheap food (which incidentally makes him obese). Now Joe is living from month to month, spends all of his government money, and relaxes at home, knowing that while he will never move up, he can leech off of the government permanently. What world do you live in, in which unemployment benefits last forever? In my experience, they are based on the income you’ve earned and the length of time you’ve worked leading up to the point at which you lost your job, and they are granted for a set period of time based on these criteria, not indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914/80 "2010-03-03T12:31:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Gonna have to disagree with you there. If Europe had health care that was as high quality as ours, why would so many Europeans come to America to get treated for serious diseases? If American health care is so great, why do so many Americans emigrate to the UK for [health](http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/2009/12/28/6499/an-american-in-the-uk-healthcare-for-type-1-/) reasons? > [@](#): > > 1. There will be no difference in the number of people who wish to become doctors and are willing to pay for and go through medical school themselves if doctors made less money. Medical school placements in the UK are shockingly competitive, solely because so many people want to be doctors. > [@](#): > > 1. There will be no reduction in the salary of doctors if the hospitals they work for were forced to accept smaller payments from health insurance companies, especially those run by the government. Doctors (especially specialists who often have their own clinics on the side) are amongst the top professional earners in the UK. > [@](#): > > 1. There will be an easy alternative to government-funded health care. Several private medical insurance schemes exist in the UK. For instance, BUPA. > [@](#): > > 1. Free health care will not be abused in the same way emergency rooms currently are. Not sure what you mean here. Does anybody really like visiting the doctor or the hospital? Who is abusing the system? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-countries-with-uhc-suffering-or-not-economically-because-of-uhc/530914.md?page=5)