# How are myth based, supernatural belief systems like Chrstianity going to survive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695 "2006-04-21T21:53:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/21 "2006-04-22T01:19:35Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Standard disclaimer that IJMHO and YMMV and all that stuff. 😛 > -XT Ooh, by the way, what are the acronyms? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/22 "2006-04-22T01:23:21Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Plus I like the fair and balanced view he takes of religous belief. Given the history of religion, my view _is_ fair and balanced. > [@Happy Clam](#): > > Tell me, **Der Trihs** will you be one of the survivors? > > _Always look on the bright side of life…_ No, as an atheist I expect to be one of the first killed - and that _is_ the bright side. > [@legalsnugs](#): > > And each belief or “religion” is perfectly valid, because although it cannot be proven, you can believe it in anyway - which is the basis of faith. No. Reality is what it is, not what you believe it is. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > I think science can certainly explain a lot of myths that will eventually be left behind but I have a hard time believing science will ever prove there’s no afterlife. How could they? We went there and came back and sho nuff…nothing there. It already has, as far as anything can be proved. Damage the brain, damage the person; destroy the brain, destroy the person. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/23 "2006-04-22T01:34:06Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > It already has, as far as anything can be proved. Damage the brain, damage the person; destroy the brain, destroy the person. And this does \*not \*prove there is no after life which is what I was commenting on. Once again your bias has caused you to make statements that are just plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/24 "2006-04-22T01:38:07Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > No. Reality is what it is, not what you believe it is. This translates to reality is what **Der Trihs** believes it is. Is that irony? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/25 "2006-04-22T01:39:23Z")
Religion is immune to attack; it provides simple, happy answers to questions that science can only give depressing, convoluted guesses at. Science cannot even disprove the existence of God and the afterlife, because it can only comment on things that can be observed and documented. The religious have no reason to discard their beliefs, and as a whole, they never will. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/26 "2006-04-22T01:39:57Z")
I don’t think the OP is asking why religion would survive. He’s asking how religions that are full of ritualistic mythical wackiness are going to survive, with that embarrasingly silly stuff weighing it down. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/27 "2006-04-22T01:44:30Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > And this does \*not \*prove there is no after life which is what I was commenting on. Once again your bias has caused you to make statements that are just plain wrong. Really ? And how are we supposed to have an afterlife if we have nothing to have a afterlife _with_ ? Remember, I said “as far as anything can be proved”, which means zero-evidence idea like souls don’t apply. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > This translates to reality is what **Der Trihs** believes it is. > > Is that irony? What are you babbling about ? My statement applies to me as much as anyone, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/28 "2006-04-22T01:47:20Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > This translates to reality is what **Der Trihs** believes it is. > > Is that irony? Well, not really. Reality is what it is. Putting words in his mouth doesn’t necessarily change that. Perception of that reality is simply where we differ. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/29 "2006-04-22T01:52:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by legalsnugs > And each belief or “religion” is perfectly valid, because although it cannot be proven, you can believe it in anyway - which is the basis of faith. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Cosmodan > No. Reality is what it is, not what you believe it is. Which was my point. Facts are facts. Facts are not beliefs, which are chosen. For example, people do not get sick from “evil spirits.” We do not get well from hanging a totem on the wall to ward away evil spirits, no matter how much we might want to believe it. Bacteria are a fact. “Reality” is a more amorphous concept - just ask any two witnesses to an accident. My reality, not scientific facts which I cannot dispute, is what I choose to believe. And my reality may be far different from your reality. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/30 "2006-04-22T01:55:38Z")
Oh no, I attributed the comment by \*\*Der Trihs \*\* to **cosmodan**. I apologize, **cosmodan**. I meant no harm - just a scrivener’s error! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/31 "2006-04-22T01:59:49Z")
> [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > Ooh, by the way, what are the acronyms? IJMHO=Its Just My Honest Opinion YMMV=Your Mileage May Vary 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/32 "2006-04-22T02:00:36Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > “Reality” is a more amorphous concept - just ask any two witnesses to an accident. > > My reality, not scientific facts which I cannot dispute, is what I choose to believe. And my reality may be far different from your reality. That’s _not_ reality; it’s perception/belief. You’re misusing the word. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/33 "2006-04-22T02:06:51Z")
> [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > Well, just because science is more specialized and more complex than we could ever have thought, that doesn’t mean it’s any less of an answer. > People that are in the process of being refuted cling a little harder to their beliefs. What I’ve noticed is that lots of Christians tend to hang with others that are also Christians and believe the same. The books they read tend to be written by Christian authors who just reinforce their beliefs. If they have friends that are not Christians they tend not to discuss beliefs. When the oppportunity presents itsef I try to challenge people to examine their beliefs and have the courage to honestly look at alternate beliefs and evidence rather than just dismiss it. It’s a long process. ONe thing I think will change in a few generations is the belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. There is just to much archeological information available and becoming common knowledge for that belief to survive. > [@](#): > > I also think a lot of people are starting to become disenchanted with some of the major religions and are turning to “other” forms of religion (“other” isn’t a good word, and I can’t come up with a better one at this second). It’s nice and convenient to think there’s a place where good people are rewarded and bad people are punished and everthing equals out. I’m simply not convinced that such things are the case. There’s a book called the End of Faith that is very good. In it the author encourages people to lose their reservations about not challenging beliefs out of some misplaced politeness or a sense that it’s “bad” to challenge someones religious beliefs. If someone is a good person who helps their neighbors and makes a real contribution to society based on their faith in Christ I’m fine with that. What I will vehemently oppose is people who use their religious beliefs as a basis for laws or to justify their bigotry. There may be a rise in less structured alternative religions. I have my own set of beliefs and I know others who are very tolerant of many religions and feel completely at ease at picking and choosing what spiritual path works best for them. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/34 "2006-04-22T02:11:15Z")
> [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > Well, just because science is more specialized and more complex than we could ever have thought, that doesn’t mean it’s any less of an answer. Sure it does…if you don’t understand even the question. Take Evolution for instance. If people don’t fundamentally understand how it operates (and many don’t), and if they don’t understand the implications of a major or even a minor discovery, then it seems plausable to them that alternative explainations could be true…or that science ‘doesn’t know everything’. This is true (i.e. science DOESN’T know everything) but it misses a lot by glossing over it. And Evolution isn’t exactly the most complex of the sciences. Its also been around for quite some time now…yet we are seeing another resurgence in the popularity of alternatives like ID and even the tried and true YEC and OEC. Not just in the US either. But think about the implications of such things IN the US, or any other advanced and technological society. > [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > Also, because science is getting more complicated, the “common man” might look for the simpler answer: religion. Just because someone yells the incorrect answer doesn’t make their answer any more right (or wrong). It just simply is wrong. Well, to the first half of this statement I’ll say: Exactly my point. People ARE searching for less complex answers that they can understand and grasp. Thats kind of why I was disagreeing with the OP as to the demise of religion…and my wider definition of magical thinking. To the second half I’ll just say: huh? > [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > I also think a lot of people are starting to become disenchanted with some of the major religions and are turning to “other” forms of religion (“other” isn’t a good word, and I can’t come up with a better one at this second). It’s nice and convenient to think there’s a place where good people are rewarded and bad people are punished and everthing equals out. I’m simply not convinced that such things are the case. You are mixing a lot of things up here. First off, because YOU don’t believe (or me either) doesn’t preclude others from doing so. Secondly, again, you are making my point. Whether or not the major religions ARE running out of gas (its debatable), the question of the OP was if ‘supernational believe systems like Christianity’ are going to survive in the future. So…if folks switch from Christianity or Islam or Judiasm to some wacky Crystal and Alien believe system, they are STILL using a supernatural belief system…just not the one they were using before. Q.E.D…supernatural belief systems may be changing or shifting but they ain’t going away. IMHO anyway. -XT ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/35 "2006-04-22T02:22:09Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Really ? And how are we supposed to have an afterlife if we have nothing to have a afterlife _with_ ? > > Remember, I said “as far as anything can be proved”, which means zero-evidence idea like souls don’t apply. Oh yes really really. You responded with “It already has” which implies science has proved there is no after life. It most certainly has not and that makes your statement incorrect no matter how you try to qualify it now. > [@](#): > > What are you babbling about ? My statement applies to me as much as anyone, of course. Fair enough. My experience with you is that you make sweeping blanket statements about what reality is. If you are admitting that your beliefs have no special claim on reality then I’d consider that progress. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/36 "2006-04-22T02:26:15Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > I don’t think the OP is asking why religion would survive. He’s asking how religions that are full of ritualistic mythical wackiness are going to survive, with that embarrasingly silly stuff weighing it down. An equally good question is how atheism will survive, with inane ridicule instead of rational thought weighing it down. :dubious: Ritual is a human constant – from the customs of etiquette to Robert’s Rules. It’s when ritual no longer matches a felt need among the present culture that it becomes a dead accretion. Likewise myth is the methodology used by humans to grasp the metaphysical realities that do not conceptualize well in rational terms in words of less than six syllables. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/37 "2006-04-22T02:31:46Z")
> [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > Well, not really. Reality is what it is. > Putting words in his mouth doesn’t necessarily change that. > > Perception of that reality is simply where we differ. Of course, but perception of reality is what we have as individuals. My past experience with the nature of\*\* Der Trihs\*\* posts influnced my reading. Perhaps I misunderstood. Isn’t it true that none of us have a complete grasp on “what it is” Our differing perceptions is what makes life interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/38 "2006-04-22T03:38:05Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Oh yes really really. You responded with “It already has” which implies science has proved there is no after life. It most certainly has not and that makes your statement incorrect no matter how you try to qualify it now. Yes, it has as far as it _can_ be proved, by demonstrating that our mind is a function of the brain. You can only claim an afterlife exists by invoking a superstition like the soul. > [@Polycarp](#): > > An equally good question is how atheism will survive, with inane ridicule instead of rational thought weighing it down. :dubious: People who still buy into prescientific superstition are hardly in a position to make speeches about rationality. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/39 "2006-04-22T04:25:39Z")
> [@](#): > > An equally good question is how atheism will survive, with inane ridicule instead of rational thought weighing it down. You know quite well that atheism, not being anything in itself, has nothing to “weigh it down.” The point is: while one can work to rationalize something like the story of Noah’s ark into some sort of meaningful moral for modern times, why? Why not come up with new stories, new illustrations, that don’t have confusing and bizarre stumbling blocks like the idea of packing all “kinds” into a boat, or somehow getting past the fact that the story condones the wholesale murder of the entire world’s population, no matter how “wicked” they are claimed to have been. It is “inane” to point out that maybe there are better stories, better starting places for an ethos or religion, without so much bizarre baggage? > [@](#): > > Ritual is a human constant – from the customs of etiquette to Robert’s Rules. It’s when ritual no longer matches a felt need among the present culture that it becomes a dead accretion. Likewise myth is the methodology used by humans to grasp the metaphysical realities that do not conceptualize well in rational terms in words of less than six syllables. Sure, but after awhile, the myths and rituals of bygone eras lose both relevance and morality, and are replaced by better ones. It’s all well and nice that one can read something good out of the Bible. The question is: why do we still need myths and lawbooks that celebrate slavery, infanticide, a proudly genocidal god, hell, and all sorts of archaic pagan mystical thinking, and so on? We’ve moved past that. Why not cut those parts out, a la Jefferson? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2006, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695/40 "2006-04-22T04:33:21Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > People who still buy into prescientific superstition are hardly in a position to make speeches about rationality. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. (And, of course, in the midst of your possible misuse of words, I would hate to discover that you are attempting a personal insult in [Great Debates\*\*.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-myth-based-supernatural-belief-systems-like-chrstianity-going-to-survive/353695.md?page=3)