# How are other Christians viewed by the Catholic church? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 21, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363 "2005-04-21T03:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/1 "2005-04-21T03:37:43Z")
What is their status in the eyes of the church? No different then that of a Hindu? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/2 "2005-04-21T04:54:59Z")
From the [Catechism of the Catholic Church](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#836) (particularly para 838): > [@](#): > > **Who belongs to the Catholic Church?** > **836**"All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation."320 > **837**"Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321 > **838**"The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324 > > \*\*The Church and non-Christians \*\* > **839**"Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325 > _The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People._ When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329 > **840** And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus. > **841** _The Church’s relationship with the Muslims._ "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330 > **842** \*The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions \* is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: > All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331 > **843** The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332 > **844** In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them: > Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333 > **845** To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334 > > **"Outside the Church there is no salvation"** > **846** How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: > Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336 > **847** This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: > Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337 > \*\*848 \*\* "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338 > 320 \*Lumen Gentium \* 13. > 321 \*Lumen Gentium \* 14. > 322 \*Lumen Gentium \* 15. > 323 \*Unitatis redintegratio \* 3. > 324 Paul VI, Discourse, December 14, 1975; cf. \*Unitatis redintegratio \* 13-18. > 325 \*Lumen Gentium \* 16. > 326 Cf. \*Nostra aetate \* 4. > 327 Roman Missal, Good Friday 13:General Intercessions,VI. > 328 Romans 9:4-5. > 329 Romans 11:29. > 330 \*Lumen Gentium \* 16; cf. \*Nostra aetate \* 3. > 331 \*Nostra aetate \* 1. > 332 \*Lumen Gentium \* 16; cf. \*Nostra aetate \* 2; \*Evangelii nuntiandi \* 53. > 333 \*Lumen Gentium \* 16; cf. Romans 1:21, 25. > 334 St. Augustine, Sermons. 96,7,9: \*Patroligia Latina \* (Paris, 1841-1855) > 38,588; St. Ambrose, _De virginibus_. 18 118: \*Patroligia Latina \* (Paris, 1841-1855) > 16,297B; cf. already 1 Peter 3:20-21. > 335 Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21:PL 3,1169; _De unit_.: \*Patroligia Latina \* (Paris, 1841-1855) > 4,509-536. > 336 \*Lumen Gentium \* 14; cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5. > 337 \*Lumen Gentium \* 16; cf. Denzinger-Schonmetzer, _Enchiridion Symbolorum, definitionum et declarationum de > rebus fidei et morum_ (1965) 3866-3872. > 338 \*Ad gentes \* 7; cf. Hebrews 11:6; 1 Corinthians 9:16. How much of this statement will survive Joe’s reign, I couldn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/3 "2005-04-21T12:25:34Z")
In addition the the Catechism (and especially if one wants to know which way Pope Benedict XVI may be headed)…it may be helpful to take a gander at [DOMINUS IESUS](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html) …which is also covered [here](http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_othe.htm) in simpler fashion … Expect to hear much talk about the (IMHO) clumsy phrase “gravely deficient”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/4 "2005-04-21T17:12:55Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > From the [Catechism of the Catholic Church](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#836) . . . **Tomndebb** , paragraph states that “the plan of salvation also includes . . . the Muslims”; and yet in paragraph 846 it seems to contradict this statement with " . . . they could not be saved . . . would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it." How does the Catholic Church reconcile these apparently conflicting statements? ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/5 "2005-04-21T17:18:43Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > **Tomndebb** , paragraph states that “the plan of salvation also includes . . . the Muslims”; and yet in paragraph 846 it seems to contradict this statement with " . . . they could not be saved . . . would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it." > > How does the Catholic Church reconcile these apparently conflicting statements? > [@](#): > > Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. This is saying if Yassir “knows” that the Catholic faith is necessary for salvation…but makes a conscious choice to refuse to enter (or remain) in it, then Yassir can not be saved. Presumably if Yassir is a practicing Muslim, he doesn’t “know/believe” this… ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/6 "2005-04-21T18:20:30Z")
On a related note, I was at Mass at a nearby church last Saturday night (I’m not Catholic; a FOAF was singing and I wanted to hear her) and reading through the Missal I noticed that non-Catholics were invited to partake in the Eucharist. :eek: The last time I’d seen the inside of a Catholic church prior to last Saturday was in the mid-80’s, and at that time the Missal clearly stated that non-Catholic Christians were asked to abstain. (IIRC, Jews were allowed to participate. Go figure.) When did this change? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/7 "2005-04-21T18:35:49Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > On a related note, I was at Mass at a nearby church last Saturday night (I’m not Catholic; a FOAF was singing and I wanted to hear her) and reading through the Missal I noticed that non-Catholics were invited to partake in the Eucharist. > > :eek: > > The last time I’d seen the inside of a Catholic church prior to last Saturday was in the mid-80’s, and at that time the Missal clearly stated that non-Catholic Christians were asked to abstain. (IIRC, Jews were allowed to participate. Go figure.) > > When did this change? It has not changed. Either you misunderstood the missal, or there has been a serious error at the missal printing shop. Non-Christians, such as Jews, are not invited to participate in the Eucharist. Nor are most non-Catholic Christians. Christians that are members of churches that accept the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and whose orders are valid - basically the Orthodox - may receive the Eucharist. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/8 "2005-04-21T19:14:46Z")
Maybe they decided to fudge a bit on the requirements, in the interests of evangelism, or ecumenicism, or “reaching out to the community”, or something. [http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/communion.shtml](http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/communion.shtml) > [@](#): > > Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 § 4). Maybe they got permission from the Bishop? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/9 "2005-04-21T19:20:26Z")
Are you sure it was a _Roman_ Catholic church, **HeyHomie**? ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/10 "2005-04-21T19:27:34Z")
The other possibility is that some churches have an informal tradition…where if a non Catholic approaches the priest in the Communion line, he can cross his arms in front of his chest (indicating that he’s not Catholic) and receive a blessing. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/11 "2005-04-21T19:27:45Z")
Non-Christians are allowed to come up and be blssed during th Eucharistic feast. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/12 "2005-04-21T19:39:07Z")
> [@](#): > > he can cross his arms in front of his chest (indicating that he’s not Catholic) Actually, that gesture just indicates that the person will not be receiving Communion. It’s also used by children who have not yet received First Communion, and adult Catholics who for whatever reason choose not to participate. Incidentally, the Church also holds that there is only one baptism. If a person is baptised as a Lutheran, or a Methodist, or any other Christian denomination, and switches to Catholicism, there will be a ceremony to welcome that new member, but the ceremony will not include baptism, since the person was already baptized. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/13 "2005-04-21T19:45:05Z")
> [@Duck Duck Goose](#): > > Maybe they decided to fudge a bit on the requirements, in the interests of evangelism, or ecumenicism, or “reaching out to the community”, or something. > > [http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/communion.shtml](http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/communion.shtml) > Maybe they got permission from the Bishop? The Bishop may not approve administering Eucharist to non-Christians under any circumstances. Canon 844 provides that Chrisitan recipients of the Eucharist must "demonstrate the catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and [be] properly disposed. " It’s very unlikely the Bishop would offer a general invitation to receive this sacrament without a way of assuring himself of this. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/14 "2005-04-21T19:59:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Bishop may not approve administering Eucharist to non-Christians under any circumstances. I’m reading HeyHomie’s question as referring to non-Catholic Christians, not to non-Christians. > [@HeyHomie](#): > > … reading through the Missal I noticed that non-Catholics were invited to partake in the Eucharist. > > …The last time I’d seen the inside of a Catholic church prior to last Saturday was in the mid-80’s, and at that time the Missal clearly stated that non-Catholic Christians were asked to abstain. Thus, maybe they got permission from the Bishop to open the Eucharist to non-Catholic Christians, in the interests of evangelism, or ecumenicism, or “reaching out to the community”, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/15 "2005-04-21T20:09:43Z")
> [@Duck Duck Goose](#): > > I’m reading HeyHomie’s question as referring to non-Catholic Christians, not to non-Christians. > Thus, maybe they got permission from the Bishop to open the Eucharist to non-Catholic Christians, in the interests of evangelism, or ecumenicism, or “reaching out to the community”, or something. Nope, I highly doubt that a Bishop would be able to grant permission to do so. Especially when you consider that not all Catholics may receive communion. (Although if you WEREN’T Catholic, and you went up in line, with your hand out, they’d never know.) ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/16 "2005-04-21T20:29:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Nope, I highly doubt that a Bishop would be able to grant permission to do so. Especially when you consider that not all Catholics may receive communion. > > (Although if you WEREN’T Catholic, and you went up in line, with your hand out, they’d never know.) I suspect a lot of local Parish Priests take what liberties they feel are appropriate. My sister was married in a Catholic Church. I’m Lutheran; knowing that my mother would want us all to commune together during the Mass, I asked the Priest if he would have a problem with Lutherans communing. His response - he didn’t have a problem with it if I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/17 "2005-04-21T21:00:02Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Are you sure it was a _Roman_ Catholic church, **HeyHomie**? No, it was in Springfield, not Rome. Thank you, thank you. I’ll be here all week. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/18 "2005-04-21T22:09:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Actually, that gesture just indicates that the person will not be receiving Communion. It’s also used by children who have not yet received First Communion, and adult Catholics who for whatever reason choose not to participate. > . You’re correct…I was just applying the gesture to the case at hand, involving a non Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/19 "2005-04-21T22:40:17Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > No, it was in Springfield, not Rome. > > Thank you, thank you. I’ll be here all week. # Well, you could have attended Mass at [St. Peter’s in Rome](http://www.romenewyork.com/photo_gallery/Picture14.html), and visited Fort Stanwix, which is only a few blocks away. In point of fact, Catholicism believes that there is only one Church, founded by Jesus in the commissioning of the Eleven, with St. Peter as their leader, and continued down to the present in the form of the outfit that has parishes conducting Mass in your hometown and which recently called its leaders together to elect a new replacement for St. Peter. However, that conception applies to the _visible_ Church, the one that has clearly delineated membership lines, **and also to the _invisible_ Church** , which does not. Participating in the invisible Church is a matter of giving faithful assent to the doctrine of the faith, and one can be at varying distances from the center rather than on one side or the other of a clear inside/outside line. Catholics participate in the fullness of the Deposit of Faith by virtue of being Catholics, who willingly assent to the teachings of the Church. But other Christians are at varying removes from this fullness and participate more or less in the saving graces of the faith. The Orthodox are deemed extremely close to the center; we Anglicans and the Lutherans at a slightly more distant remove; the other Protestants at varying further degrees of distance (a high-church Presbyterian being closer than a conservative Baptist, for example); Latter-day Saints and others yet further out; and so on. [All the above, of course, is reported from the perspective of what Catholicism believes about itself and “other denominations” (a term they would not use).] ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363/20 "2005-04-25T13:29:18Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > On a related note, I was at Mass at a nearby church last Saturday night (I’m not Catholic; a FOAF was singing and I wanted to hear her) and reading through the Missal I noticed that non-Catholics were invited to partake in the Eucharist. UPDATE: I went back last weekend (4/23) to double check, and re-read the relevant portions of the Missal. Apparently I was mistaken. I had only read the first paragraph, which gave the impression that other Christians were invited to participate. But the second paragraph made it clear that other Christians were invited to participate by sitting prayerfully in their pews. My bad. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-other-christians-viewed-by-the-catholic-church/300363.md?page=2)