# How are particularly horrific criminals treated by the other inmates? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 19, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329 "2011-08-19T16:27:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/1 "2011-08-19T16:27:29Z")
Look up the comments section to any news story about a particularly horrific criminal (Levi Aron, Anders Behring Breivik), and you’ll find plenty of comments along the lines of “this creep won’t last a week in jail, the other inmates will take care of him reeeeeal good.” In cases where the death penalty is out of the question, this seems to be public revenge fantasy #1 – “if the government won’t kill him, let’s hope the other inmates will.” _ **Sidestepping all questions about whether the death penalty should exist or not, or whether such revenge fantasies are moral or immoral,** _ my question is simple: Does it ever happen? Are notorious criminals sometimes killed/tortured/mistreated by other inmates, not as a result of internal power struggles or the like, but as “revenge” for their original crimes? Are there famous examples of this? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/2 "2011-08-19T16:34:47Z")
Jeffrey Dahmer was killed by another inmate, who himself seems to have some loose screws: > **[Christopher Scarver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Scarver)** > > Christopher J. Scarver Sr. (born July 6, 1969) is an American convicted triple-murderer who is best known for the racially motivated murders of his fellow inmates Jeffrey Dahmer, a serial killer, as well as Jesse Anderson, a murderer, at the Columbia Correctional Institution in Wisconsin in 1994. Scarver used a 20-inch (51 cm) metal bar which he had removed from a piece of exercise equipment in the prison weight room to beat and fatally wound Dahmer and Anderson. Scarver was sentenced to two f... ---
**Author:** ![Bri2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/48db29/32.png) [@Bri2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bri2k)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/3 "2011-08-19T16:34:53Z")
Sure it happens. [Jeffrey Dahmer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer) is a good example. Bri2k ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/4 "2011-08-19T16:50:27Z")
Yeah, but I’m not sure about Scarver’s motives. _Could_ have been “revenge,” sure, but the Wiki link doesn’t really say… Well, apart from quoting him as telling a guard that “God told me to do it.” ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/5 "2011-08-19T17:01:22Z")
You don’t have to be a “horrific criminal.” Just be a defenseless, segregated prisoner and there is a prison riot, [a la the New Mexico 1980 prison riot](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/New_Mexico_State_Penitentiary_riot). ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/6 "2011-08-19T17:28:05Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > You don’t have to be a “horrific criminal.” Just be a defenseless, segregated prisoner and there is a prison riot, [a la the New Mexico 1980 prison riot](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/New_Mexico_State_Penitentiary_riot). I’m well aware that inmates kill other inmates all the time, riot or no riot. But I’m asking specifically about criminals being killed, in jail, as a result of the notoriety or heinousness of their original crimes. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/7 "2011-08-19T17:34:33Z")
John Geoghan, convicted pedophile priest, was [strangled in his cell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Geoghan#Murder_of_Geoghan) by another inmate. There’s evidence that the murder was [planned](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/26/national/26PRIE.html), not just spur of the moment. ---
**Author:** ![isaiahrobinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@isaiahrobinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/isaiahrobinson)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/8 "2011-08-19T17:57:11Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > I’m well aware that inmates kill other inmates all the time, riot or no riot. > > But I’m asking specifically about criminals being killed, in jail, as a result of the notoriety or heinousness of their original crimes. There’s a number of them that have been attacked in prison here in the UK, particularly those guilty of crimes involving murdering children. I don’t know of any who were actually killed though. [Ian Huntley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_Wells) had scalding water thrown in his face and separately had his throat slashed. His girlfriend, Maxine Carr, who was convicted of trying to help him cover up the murders, also had boiling water [thrown](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-204330/Boiling-water-attack-Carr.html) at her, although apparently it missed. Ian Brady was attacked a number of times, including one in which he was [stabbed](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6173755.stm) in both eyes with a pen, permanently blinding him in his left eye. His girlfriend too, Myra Hindley, claimed she was repeatedly attacked in prison. The man who killed Milly Dowler was [attacked](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14395535) a few weeks ago, although only received ‘cuts’. The man who killed “Baby P” was first beaten in prison, and a few months later also had scalding water [thrown in his face](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250715/Baby-Ps-stepfather-scalded-napalm-attack.html), scarring him for life. According to that article one of the inmates said: > [@](#): > > Fellow inmates applauded as he was ambushed, according to The Sun. > > One told the paper: 'To say Barker is disliked is an understatement - he is reviled. The other inmates all hate him with a passion. > > 'When Barker came here every one knew what he had done to Baby P. Your card is marked if you have a crime against your name concerning kids. > > 'After the attack everyone was in good spirits, knowing someone had hurt Barker. The guy who did it will be getting applauded every-where he goes now. > > ‘It will be seen as a badge of honor and it is just a matter of time before someone else takes a shot at Barker too’. ---
**Author:** ![isaiahrobinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@isaiahrobinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/isaiahrobinson)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/9 "2011-08-19T18:01:32Z")
Incidentally, Ian Brady and Ian Huntley are arguably the two most notorious murderers in the UK, and the Baby P and Milly Dowler murders received huge media attention. I don’t know whether that’s why those killers were attacked - whether they were one-off things - or whether all such murderers are routinely attacked in UK prisons but without it being reported. Probably something in the middle I’d guess. ---
**Author:** ![isaiahrobinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@isaiahrobinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/isaiahrobinson)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/10 "2011-08-19T18:05:58Z")
Although I have to say that Sun quote looks suspiciously perfect, and it’s unattributed… ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/11 "2011-08-19T18:06:32Z")
Far better than they treated their victims. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/12 "2011-08-19T18:31:54Z")
> [@isaiahrobinson](#): > > Although I have to say that Sun quote looks suspiciously perfect, and it’s unattributed… Those are classic newspaper made-up quotes. See also “an onlooker said” and “a bystander commented”. “Friends of” means the individual concerned, or their PR people, and “sources close to” similarly, but more often used for politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/13 "2011-08-19T18:39:12Z")
> [@isaiahrobinson](#): > > Incidentally, Ian Brady and Ian Huntley are arguably the two most notorious murderers in the UK, and the Baby P and Milly Dowler murders received huge media attention. I don’t know whether that’s why those killers were attacked - whether they were one-off things - or whether all such murderers are routinely attacked in UK prisons but without it being reported. Probably something in the middle I’d guess. Peter Sutcliffe is probably the most notorious murderer still alive in Britain (well, him or Brady), and he’s been attacked a few times, even in the Broadmoor secure hospital. Dennis Nilsen, on the other hand, has always been in regular prisons (albeit the chunkier end of Cat-A) and doesn’t seem to have ever been attacked. Edit: Re Nilsen,had to look him up as unsure of spelling - a lot of his victims are still unidentified. What a sad thing that is. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/14 "2011-08-19T19:36:25Z")
I’ve always heard that criminals who have been convicted of crimes against children can expect to have short life expectancies in prison, but I don’t know if there are numbers to back that up. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/15 "2011-08-19T19:56:11Z")
I would suspect the “prison revenge” meme in which people are attached specifically because of their crimes by justice seeking fellow criminals is way overblown. People may be attacked because they are mentally “off” or obnoxious, or perceived as weak, or possibly just for the notoriety of being their attacker. If there really a higher incidence of attacks I think it would have more to do with the personality of the criminal being attacked rather than any retributive justice seeking by fellow inmates. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/16 "2011-08-19T20:24:52Z")
A prison is full of dangerous people, so the fact that some inmates are targeted may say less about their notoriety and more about their surroundings. Many of the most notorious criminals in the federal prisons are kept in isolation in [SuperMax facilities](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence) (guys like Ted Kaczynski and Ramzi Yousef. That doesn’t seem to happen in state prisons, for whatever reason. But it’s not clear that the death of Dahmer or the attempts to kill Charles Manson were related to the sort of “revenge” that the OP suggests. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/17 "2011-08-19T20:26:41Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I’ve always heard that criminals who have been convicted of crimes against children can expect to have short life expectancies in prison, but I don’t know if there are numbers to back that up. They are often housed together away from general population for this reason. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/18 "2011-08-19T20:57:44Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > That doesn’t seem to happen in state prisons, for whatever reason. But it’s not clear that the death of Dahmer or the attempts to kill Charles Manson were related to the sort of “revenge” that the OP suggests. Where did you get that idea? Most state prison systems have segregation units. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/19 "2011-08-19T21:09:46Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > John Geoghan, convicted pedophile priest, was [strangled in his cell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Geoghan#Murder_of_Geoghan) by another inmate. There’s evidence that the murder was [planned](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/26/national/26PRIE.html), not just spur of the moment. > [@isaiahrobinson](#): > > [Ian Huntley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_Wells) had scalding water thrown in his face and separately had his throat slashed. His girlfriend, Maxine Carr, who was convicted of trying to help him cover up the murders, also had boiling water [thrown](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-204330/Boiling-water-attack-Carr.html) at her, although apparently it missed. Ian Brady was attacked a number of times, including one in which he was [stabbed](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6173755.stm) in both eyes with a pen, permanently blinding him in his left eye. His girlfriend too, Myra Hindley, claimed she was repeatedly attacked in prison. The man who killed Milly Dowler was [attacked](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14395535) a few weeks ago, although only received ‘cuts’. The man who killed “Baby P” was first beaten in prison, and a few months later also had scalding water [thrown in his face](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250715/Baby-Ps-stepfather-scalded-napalm-attack.html), scarring him for life. > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Peter Sutcliffe is probably the most notorious murderer still alive in Britain (well, him or Brady), and he’s been attacked a few times, even in the Broadmoor secure hospital. Ah, looks like it does happen from time to time, then… Thanks for the info. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329/20 "2011-08-19T21:12:05Z")
> [@isaiahrobinson](#): > > Although I have to say that Sun quote looks suspiciously perfect, and it’s unattributed… > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Those are classic newspaper made-up quotes. See also “an onlooker said” and “a bystander commented”. “Friends of” means the individual concerned, or their PR people, and “sources close to” similarly, but more often used for politicians. Agreed, it’s probably a made-up quote, but the string of examples mentioned by **isaiahrobinson** certainly seem to suggest there’s a good chance that “prison revenge” is a real thing, at least in the U.K. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-particularly-horrific-criminals-treated-by-the-other-inmates/593329.md?page=2)