# How Are Rights Identified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-rights-identified/266228 "2004-09-27T01:21:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-rights-identified/266228/21 "2004-09-29T01:50:42Z")
The idea of basic fundamental rights did not start with Jefferson. They did not start with the people he was influenced by. They did not even start with the Greeks. It is something as old as nature, as old as evolution. Apes - gorillas and chimps - have a sense of right and wrong, and their own ways of punishing those who are too vicious or do not share. The strongest silverback sets the rules, but he also protects those under his care. He instinctively defends them againt all comers. In extreme cases of failure on his part, either another big male, or all the females kick his ass and exile him, and a new “king” takes over. Many other animals do the same. Recent research into brainwave activity suggests that a sense of right and wrong, a sense of justice is hardwired into us. It is an instinctual feeling that certain things simply should be. All civilization did, was to put these basic things into words. As far as the rights of nobles, that started with your basic local warlord and peasants, and it was a contract. You are farmers, I have men and weapons. You “pay a tax” of food every season, and I protect you against robbers and invaders. It was not until the local lords had consolidated all the power and got full of themselves that they got the idea that they held all the cards. But even then, there was the idea of noblesse oblige. The more intelligent nobles recognized that in return for their privilege, they owed something back. There was also Common Law, which had nothing to do with any edicts by Harry Up In The Big Castle. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-rights-identified/266228/22 "2004-09-30T10:56:02Z")
> [@Poly](#): > > them without the consent of the other, except in accord with previously stated terms – i.e., if you hold 60% interest and I 40% interest, and our agreement states that issue X will be decided by majority vote of shares, then you win – but you may not decide to take partnership assets for your personal use without compensating me for my interest. > > Likewise, if I place land in trust for my grandchildren and name you as trustee, while it belongs to them and any profits from it must be paid to or held for them, you have control over that land; the person wishing to buy, rent, or otherwise make use of it must apply to you, not to the kids, and abide by your decision. > > If you, I, Gaudere, RTFirefly and Mangetout together buy land, and we decide to name you as trustee over it, with the income from it paid to us proportionately, the same holds – you have custody of it, though not title, and even one of the four of us wanting to make use of it or a part of it must abide by your decision – pending a majority vote revoking your trusteeship. But those things are **voluntary**. Remember now, you own your **consent**. You therefore have a right to **waive all or part of your consent**. > [@](#): > > Public lands are held in trust for the people by the state, its officials acting in a trusteeship capacity. No single member of the body politic can make use of them to the detriment of all others, because they are jointly owned by all citizens – and their custody is in the public officials – whose trusteeship may be revoked at the polls. But that is **not voluntary**. Perhaps some consent, but perhaps **some do not**. The State was **not born with a body or a mind**. It therefore **has no rights**. If you are going to examine my philosophy, then **examine it with its own principles** , not the principles of authoritarianism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-rights-identified/266228.md?page=1)