# How are the Clinton hating dems feeling now? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862 "2022-06-25T22:15:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/341 "2022-08-03T18:47:40Z")
IMO they bear some responsibility, but less than those who actually voted for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/342 "2022-08-03T19:06:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > IMO they bear some responsibility, but less than those who actually voted for Trump And those who voted for Clinton, but said they were holding their noses while doing it, or voting for the lesser of two evils? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/343 "2022-08-03T19:15:40Z")
They bear no responsibility, unless they donated to Trump or otherwise did anything to support him. Why would their internal thoughts matter? Responsibility is dictated by action (or inaction), not thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/344 "2022-08-03T19:23:32Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I don’t see Miller declaring himself as a moderator so he’s posting as a poster. I noted that too, but I will get unhappy with anyone that implies I’m a liar about a simple personal experience I had. It’s not like I claimed that I flapped my arms and flew to to moon. It was just a few things a friend and I talked about. Miller’s air quotes around “friend” is insinuating that I’m a liar (post 332). And I would expect better from any moderator on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/345 "2022-08-03T19:29:19Z")
You wouldn’t be the first to call Miller an asshole. I think you have to be in order to mod the Pit. I see him as _our_ asshole though. I like Miller, but being at the receiving end I can understand being pissed. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/346 "2022-08-03T19:32:53Z")
I like him too, but will not be called a liar about a pretty benign personal experience. Waiting for the apology @Miller ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/347 "2022-08-03T19:44:06Z")
Unfortunately, you’ll be waiting a while. When it comes to things Clinton, it seems that hate overrides rationality. There really is little point to a conversation, as they will twist anything you say into a personal insult, claim martyrdom, and then demand an apology from _you_. Anything that “Team Perfect” does is entirely justified, as they are completely at war with what they believe to be the worst thing ever, and that is what is merely good. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/348 "2022-08-03T19:50:02Z")
If he does not bring me a shrubbery, I’m going to say KNEE again. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/349 "2022-08-03T19:53:14Z")
That’s “Ni!” to you. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/350 "2022-08-03T19:54:24Z")
Right then. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/351 "2022-08-03T19:55:51Z")
There were some actions involved. If someone makes a big deal about how much they don’t want to vote for Clinton, but will hold their nose and do so, they may turn off voters who aren’t willing to hold their nose. I’m sure that there were some, hopefully very few, people who chose not to vote for Clinton due to the actions of some of those who did. And while I agree that those who _voted_ for Trump bear the primary responsibility, those who sat by and watched it happen bear some, too. You can’t just watch someone drown without lifting a finger and then claim to be absolved of any responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/352 "2022-08-03T20:04:33Z")
Sure – if they purposefully reduced the chance others might vote against Trump (meaning for Clinton) then they bear a bit of responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/353 "2022-08-03T22:12:41Z")
A symbolic vote against fascism is just that. Symbolic. A three party system would be great, but when you have fascists with guns drawn, about to take over your country, your livelihood and your basic fundamental rights RIGHT NOW. It’s best to fight them RIGHT NOW with the best weapon that you have. It was clear that Sanders was not the best weapon. Clinton was. Someday, someone like Sanders might be. But not now. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/354 "2022-08-04T04:15:40Z")
Ah yes, what a good candidate Clinton was, probably the only person the joke candidate could beat. What a weird conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/355 "2022-08-04T09:55:48Z")
I’m having trouble following what the argument is supposed to be. I recall in 2016 that some people blamed progressives for Clinton’s loss, but I’ve never seen any actual data that progressives unable to hold their nose were responsible for Clinton’s loss. Furthermore, we now have a Clinton-like center-left moderate in the WH, and there’s no sign of republicans getting less mental. Or have I misunderstood the argument? It wasn’t the most eloquent OP. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/356 "2022-08-04T10:49:38Z")
It’s a dumb argument either way. It’s not the fault of Clinton supporters that Trump won, and it’s not the fault of Sanders supporters or other progressives (unless they voted for Trump, or didn’t vote at all). It’s the fault of Trump voters, and those who refrained from voting for whatever reason (the latter bear some lesser but still real responsibility IMO). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/357 "2022-08-04T11:36:37Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Ah yes, what a good candidate Clinton was, probably the only person the joke candidate could beat. What a weird conclusion. Didn’t say she was a good candidate, but when faced with a disaster, you go with what you’ve got. Don’t stay in a burning building because it’s raining out and you might get a little damp. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/358 "2022-08-04T23:50:07Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The first half was back in 1993. Bill Clinton had included public health care in his platform when he was running for President. When he was inaugurated one of the first things he did was to launch a task force to put together a public health care program that would cover all Americans. Which we were recently told is a top priority for the progressive cause. > > And Hillary Clinton was the chair of that task force. She was the leader at the center of creating a public health care system. > > The program unfortunately failed. Special interests opposed it and Republicans supported those special interests. The program got Harry and Louise’d. That may have been part of Bill’s platform, but that’s not what Hillary’s task force presented. I was working as an Actuary for group health, and my boss had me analyze her proposal for how it would affect our business. I can’t tell you any of the specifics in her proposal, other than it was based on mandated employer insurance coverage - EXACTLY what we ended up with in the ACA. Don’t remember what (if any) public option there was; don’t remember what coverage levels were mandated. What I do remember is being flabbergasted at the industry lobbyists being AGAINST it. Mandated employer coverage should mean more companies getting insurance should mean more overall profits. Harry and Louise confused the hell out of me! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/359 "2022-08-05T01:44:14Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I recall in 2016 that some people blamed progressives for Clinton’s loss, but I’ve never seen any actual data that progressives unable to hold their nose were responsible for Clinton’s loss. The evidence is the low voter turnout. A lot of people didn’t vote in 2016 - only 59.2% of eligible voters actually voted. 66.9% of eligible voters voted in 2020 and Trump was defeated. If the people who voted against Trump the second time had done so the first time, he’d have been a footnote. Who were those eligible voters who didn’t show up in 2016? The Magats showed up to vote for their Messiah. The moderates showed up to vote for Clinton. So who were the people who were unhappy with the choices they had and didn’t go to the polls on Election Day? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/360 "2022-08-05T03:17:53Z")
I know of at least two people who voted third party because they wouldn’t vote for Trump but couldn’t vote for Clinton. Or however it went. One of whom is still a Republican, although he does seem to be working to get the crazies OUT. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862.md?page=19)