# How are the Clinton hating dems feeling now? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862 "2022-06-25T22:15:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/541 "2023-04-14T17:23:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Gretchen Whitmer is a progressive governor. Her success is a refutation of the old guard of the party, and a demonstration that the criticism about Clinton’s weaknesses as a candidate were right all along. It is justifiably frustrating to see the success of progressive policies co-opted by centrists who then turn around and use it as a cudgel on the very progressives who were pushing for these changes all along. Gretchen Whitmer is a Democratic governor. Her success is a Democratic Party success. Gretchen Whitmer was a huge Clinton supporter and Clinton is a huge Whitmer supporter. When the party as a whole adopts the policies you support you should consider that a win instead of getting frustrated, and I certainly am not using Whitmer’s successes as a cudgel by celebrating them. Good things happened. Gretchen Whitmer is gaining steam by advancing the policies you prefer. This is excellent stuff. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/542 "2023-04-14T17:25:49Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > I dunno, man. You’re trying to use the success of a progressive governor as a stick to beat progressives for saying that the Democratic party needs to pursue more progressive policies if they want to be successful. > > I’m not really doing any of those things. > > He asserted that Democrats were ineffective in certain areas and I pointed to some successes in those exact areas. One of those successes occurred in Michigan hours before my post so I made it a Gretchen Whitmer theme. I’m a big fan of Gov. Whitmer. > > That in no way indicates that there aren’t Democratic successes from coast to coast and in between. > > e.g. > > [Massachusetts abortion protections bill, shielding providers and patients, signed into law by Gov. Charlie Baker - masslive.com](https://www.masslive.com/politics/2022/07/massachusetts-abortion-protections-bill-shielding-providers-and-patients-signed-into-law-by-gov-charlie-baker.html) > > [https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/illinois/articles/2023-01-10/illinois-lawmakers-weigh-heightened-abortion-protections](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/illinois/articles/2023-01-10/illinois-lawmakers-weigh-heightened-abortion-protections) > > [Colorado Becomes the 22nd State to Protect Abortion Rights | Center for Reproductive Rights](https://reproductiverights.org/colorado-state-abortion-protections/) > > [Washington State lawmakers pass shield law for abortion procedures](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-state-lawmakers-pass-shield-law-abortion-procedures) > > It’s like they’re working together toward some common goal. Like a plan or a strategy or something. Those are all well and good, but I have the sense that **Jimmy\_Chitwood** et al are asking for a comprehensive, _nationwide_ plan that will do away with the need for a patchwork set of achievements that protects people only if they’re fortunate enough to be in (or able to get to) a blue state. Something that will protect these rights for ALL Americans. And since it’s a given that the shittiest Democrat is better suited for any office than the best Republican, the best strategy I can suggest is to constantly remind every American of the well-established fact that it’s a sin to vote for a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/543 "2023-04-14T17:32:11Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > That in no way indicates that there aren’t Democratic successes from coast to coast and in between. > > e.g. > > [Massachusetts abortion protections bill, shielding providers and patients, signed into law by Gov. Charlie Baker - masslive.com](https://www.masslive.com/politics/2022/07/massachusetts-abortion-protections-bill-shielding-providers-and-patients-signed-into-law-by-gov-charlie-baker.html) Perhaps this is a slight nitpick, but Charlie Baker is a Republican. He chose not to run for re-election in 2022, and Democrat Maura Healey was elected. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/544 "2023-04-14T17:38:13Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Perhaps this is a slight nitpick, but Charlie Baker is a Republican. My bad. I had a bunch of tabs open and copied the wrong URL. Here’s what Maura Healey has been up to, > **[Healey joins multi-state alliance on abortion rights](https://www.wbur.org/news/2023/02/22/healey-massachusetts-abortion-access)** > > Healey is among 20 Democratic governors who launched the Reproductive Freedom Alliance, which aims to protect and expand abortion access in wake of the U.S. Supreme Court Dobbs v. Jackson decision which overturned a person's constitutional right... It’s like there’s a nationwide Democratic Party plan to protect and expand abortion access. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/545 "2023-04-14T17:40:50Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > My bad. I had a bunch of tabs open and copied the wrong URL. No worries; just wanted to make sure all the facts are in order. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/546 "2023-04-14T17:42:19Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Gretchen Whitmer is a Democratic governor. She is a _progressive_ Democratic governor. She’s the sort of candidate we should have rallied behind in 2016, and if we had, we wouldn’t have had four years of Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/547 "2023-04-14T17:48:16Z")
That’s a fantasy. And also not super relevant. If you can’t be happy that the Democratic Party is advancing progressive policies now until the entire party retroactively changes their 2016 positions to agree with you, you’re headed for a lifetime of disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/548 "2023-04-14T17:51:06Z")
Way ahead of you there! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/549 "2023-04-14T17:52:54Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > That’s a fantasy. And also not super relevant. Gretchen Whitmer proves otherwise. And it’s literally the topic of this entire thread. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > If you can’t be happy that the Democratic Party is advancing progressive policies now until the entire party retroactively changes their 2016 positions to agree with you, you’re headed for a lifetime of disappointment. I’m thrilled that the Democratic party is finally moving to the left. I wish disingenuous dickheads like yourself who fought this change every step of the way until it started working would at least own up to how wrong you were, but that’s a separate issue from my joy at being proved right all along. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/550 "2023-04-14T17:57:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m thrilled that the Democratic party is finally moving to the left. I wish disingenuous dickheads like yourself who fought this change every step of the way until it started working would at least own up to how wrong you were, but that’s a separate issue from my joy at being proved right all along. I’m a progressive you colossal dumb fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/551 "2023-04-14T18:00:07Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I’m a progressive you colossal dumb fuck. Well, you fooled me. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/552 "2023-04-14T18:05:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Gretchen Whitmer proves otherwise. No, she doesn’t. I’m pretty progressive myself, and I wish the 2016 Democratic Presidential nomination process had been less “machine”-dominated, but wishful assertions that nominating a more progressive candidate than Clinton definitely would have meant the defeat of Trump are not persuasive. What a progressive Democratic governor in a blue state is managing to accomplish now, more than half a decade after the rational part of the American electorate really started to have our noses rubbed in the reality of Republican authoritarian irresponsibility, is absolutely not a reliable guide to what a progressive Democratic Presidential candidate could have managed to accomplish nationwide back in 2016. Pro-Clinton Dems and anti-Clinton Dems cursing at each other for allegedly allowing things get into such a terrible state, on the basis of their opposing unprovable beliefs about contrafactual hypotheses, strikes me as about the most counterproductive activity possible. I’m sick of the lot of you. Apologies for threadshitting. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/553 "2023-04-14T18:07:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Pro-Clinton Dems and anti-Clinton Dems cursing at each other for allegedly allowing things get into such a terrible state, on the basis of their opposing unprovable beliefs about contrafactual hypotheses, strikes me as about the most counterproductive activity possible. Well, my other option right now is filling in spreadsheets for work, so mission accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/554 "2023-04-14T18:09:12Z")
Fair point. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/555 "2023-04-14T20:39:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, you fooled me. Well done. I can see how cheerleading progressive wins and trying to get others to celebrate them would be confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/556 "2023-04-14T20:47:30Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > wishful assertions that nominating a more progressive candidate than Clinton definitely would have meant the defeat of Trump are not persuasive. Trump’s smear campaign via Comey and the buttery mails would simply have shifted to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/557 "2023-04-14T23:42:20Z")
It was the part where you were being a raging asshole to other progressives that threw me. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/558 "2023-04-14T23:50:52Z")
I went after @TriPolar for being a moron and posting ahistorical bullshit to feed his Clinton hate boner, not for being a progressive. I went after @Banquet_Bear for his nonsensical stance on Feinstein and his goalpost moving, not for being progressive. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/559 "2023-04-15T00:14:30Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I went after @Banquet_Bear for his nonsensical stance on Feinstein and his goalpost moving, not for being progressive. …LOL. My stance, which you haven’t even disputed, was not nonsensical. The article I posted was from 2020. The staff that were quoted said that the health issues she was experiencing had already been going on for _years_. This wasn’t new. It didn’t just come out of the blue this month. They had plenty of time to deal with this issue. To paint it as a matter of “forcing little old ladies to do things they don’t want to do” was disingenuous. And there has been no goalpost moving. _You_ cited the accomplishments of a single governor to prove that the Democrats were doing something about gun violence, voting rights, and reproductive rights. And I pointed out to you that this _isn’t enough_. This isn’t a national strategy. There is no plan on how to protect reproductive rights or trans people in republican states. They are on their own. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I can see how cheerleading progressive wins and trying to get others to celebrate them would be confusing. Feel free to cheerlead progressive wins. Please feel free to get others to celebrate them. But don’t gaslight us. Those wins in through progressive leadership are wins in isolation. Because the moderate dems are in control of the national platform. And they have no plan to protect trans people. They have no plan to “reform the police” outside of giving them billions more in funding. There is no plan to rebalance the supreme court. Its down the centre all the way. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2023, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/560 "2023-04-15T00:36:34Z")
They did account for the health issues mentioned in that article from 2020 and confirmed judges at a record pace for two years. She’s out now with a completely unrelated health issue that is not mentioned in that article. It is causing a delay and if a solution arises in a reasonable amount of time there will be no long term damage. You keep saying that they should have dealt with this issue but they have successfully dealt with it for two years and are continuing to deal with it now. But I’m honestly curious what dealing with this issue looks like to you. Because it seems like you want to force old people to do things they don’t wish to do, or bar the elderly from office, or I don’t know what. What does dealing with this issue look like to you? No more nonsensical they need plan and a strategy talk. What does dealing with this issue look like to you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862.md?page=29)