# How are the Clinton hating dems feeling now? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862 "2022-06-25T22:15:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/121 "2022-07-01T18:40:28Z")
Exactly! Discovering that you aren’t the correct political persuasion to fight fascists must be as mind-blowing as it is mind-numbing. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/122 "2022-07-01T18:46:11Z")
? again. I’m sorry, I’m just not understanding you in this conversation, doubtless my own fault. 'Splain like I’m five? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/123 "2022-07-01T18:47:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If the mainstream candidate is appointed by an individual or small group of people, then there’s a point there to be made. If the candidate is mainstream because more people voted for them in the primary, then your issue is not with the Democratic leadership, it’s with the actual members of the Democratic party who voted for her. Good job spotting my point! Progressives told you over and over that she was a fatally flawed candidate. You guys ran her anyway, and she lost, and now you’re butthurt at progressives for being right about your shitty candidate. Maybe if you’d united behind a decent candidate in the primaries - you know, someone who could have won over those “independent voters” that went for Trump in 2016 - we’d still have abortion rights in this country. Buy y’all wanted Hillary instead. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/124 "2022-07-01T18:51:21Z")
His experiences during the Spanish Civil War where the anti-fascists spent more time trying to get rid each other than they did trying to kill fascists. > **[George Orwell | Spanish Civil War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell#Spanish_Civil_War)** > > Orwell set out for Spain on about 23 December 1936, dining with Henry Miller in Paris on the way. Miller told Orwell that going to fight in the Civil War out of some sense of obligation or guilt was "sheer stupidity" and that the Englishman's ideas "about combating Fascism, defending democracy, etc., etc., were all baloney". A few days later in Barcelona, Orwell met John McNair of the Independent Labour Party (ILP) Office who quoted him: "I've come to fight against Fascism", but if someon After a... ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/125 "2022-07-01T18:52:07Z")
I see, right, thank you! My point exactly! (Re-reading, I see that my mistake was not noticing that your observation about Orwell was generally in agreement with what I was saying, I kept trying to understand it as a rebuttal.) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/126 "2022-07-01T18:52:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > {…} Maybe if you’d united behind a decent candidate in the primaries {…} And that person was? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/127 "2022-07-01T18:56:42Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And that person was? The lack of a good bench of Democratic candidates in 2016 doesn’t really refute my criticism of the Democratic party’s general competence. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/128 "2022-07-01T18:58:18Z")
I see. So we should just ignore that last paragraph? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/129 "2022-07-01T19:01:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The lack of a good bench of Democratic candidates {…} is one of the results of getting rid of the ‘smoke filled rooms’ and allowing the electorate to pick from the candidates that are actually running, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/130 "2022-07-01T19:02:14Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > is one of the results of getting rid of the ‘smoke filled rooms’ and allowing the electorate to pick from the candidates that are actually running, correct? If you’ve got a point, I sure as hell don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/131 "2022-07-01T19:06:19Z")
That the Democratic Party’s ‘’‘’‘leadership’‘’‘’ no longer hand picks candidates, the electorate does, and they’re stuck with the folks that actually choose to seek the nomination. I’m quite sure there was a candidate better than Clinton that would have beat Trump in the largest landslide in history . . . trouble is they, apparently, didn’t want the job. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/132 "2022-07-01T19:27:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Progressives told you over and over that she was a fatally flawed candidate. You guys ran her anyway “You guys”? I voted for Bernie in the primary. But she won, she had the support of more Democrats than Bernie did. I had no problem voting for her in the general. > [@Miller](#): > > Maybe if you’d united behind a decent candidate in the primaries - you know, someone who could have won over those “independent voters” that went for Trump in 2016 Who? Certainly not Bernie. The independent voters would have been running for the hills at the mention of socialism. And unlike Hillary, he _owns_ that title. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/133 "2022-07-01T19:28:44Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m quite sure there was a candidate better than Clinton that would have beat Trump in the largest landslide in history . . . trouble is they, apparently, didn’t want the job. Sorry about that. I was planning on running, but was busy with other things. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/134 "2022-07-01T19:47:43Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m quite sure there was a candidate better than Clinton that would have beat Trump in the largest landslide in history I don’t know, I just don’t know. I didn’t vote for Clinton in the primary, but she was obviously a much better candidate than Trump. But ISTM that what a whole lot of Trump voters were after was not a good candidate but an anti-good candidate, an upraised middle finger to the whole concept of good governance and representative democracy and social progress and inclusivity. Maybe a better, more progressive Democratic candidate would also have galvanized even more enraged anti-progressives into the Trump camp. I just don’t have any confidence at all anymore in counterfactual scenarios about highly complex electoral events. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/135 "2022-07-01T19:52:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > {…} But ISTM that what a whole lot of Trump voters were after was not a good candidate but an anti-good candidate, an upraised middle finger to the whole concept of good governance and representative democracy and social progress and inclusivity. {…} I’m aware of one guy that voted for Trump because “I want to see it all burn.” ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/136 "2022-07-01T19:58:02Z")
I’m an independent–you can check that with the Secretary of State of Oregon. I will ONLY vote for a candidate that has a platform I agree with and will not vote for one who is inimical to my interests. The fact that so many centrist Democrats seem to think they have some absolute right to my vote, along with other progressives, with no need whatsoever to appeal to our interests in order to win our votes is why we’re where we are right now. We will continue to be where we are right now, either with red flavor or blue flavor, until some smart person wakes up and figures out the independents are numerically greater than either of the two stupid parties and acts accordingly. And all the dire things y’all want to threaten me with are all happening anyway while the fucking Dems sit on their hands doing precisely dick to fix anything. So it’s gonna suck for me either way, but take it from someone who endured long term domestic violence and abuse, it feels better overall to walk away from it no matter how dire the consequences because giving in to make nice kills the soul. So yeah, keep it up and see how often y’all can run the same experiment with the same variables while expecting different results–I’m morbidly and amusedly interested in just how stubborn the mainstream political parties can be about demanding a different outcome while refusing to acknowledge you don’t have the numbers to win until you do something to win the votes you think you’re entitled to. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/137 "2022-07-01T20:03:39Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m aware of one guy that voted for Trump because “I want to see it all burn.” One thing that I know about such people is that they’ve never had to rebuild after a fire. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/138 "2022-07-01T20:05:54Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > The fact that so many centrist Democrats seem to think they have some absolute right to my vote, along with other progressives, with no need whatsoever to appeal to our interests in order to win our votes is why we’re where we are right now. Okay, I take it you have no interest in keeping abortion legal, or working on preventing climate change, protecting LGBTQ+ rights, or anything else like that. Out of curiosity, since you find the Democratic platform to be “inimical” to your interests, what are they? It’s hard to pander to someone who just complains that they aren’t getting what they want, and doesn’t actually say what it is that they they want. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > And all the dire things y’all want to threaten me with are all happening anyway while the fucking Dems sit on their hands doing precisely dick to fix anything. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > I’m morbidly and amusedly interested in just how stubborn the mainstream political parties can be about demanding a different outcome while refusing to acknowledge you don’t have the numbers to win until you do something to win the votes you think you’re entitled to. What you seem to miss entirely is that the party needs the support of the people in order to do anything. They _can’t_ do anything but sit on their hands if the constituents refuse to support them. What, specifically, should they be doing that they aren’t doing? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/139 "2022-07-01T20:11:53Z")
Oh no, I DO want all those things but it’s patently obvious that outside of meaningless campaign rhetoric the Democrats have absolutely zero intention of even trying to accomplish them. They can’t even get fucking Manchin or Sinema in line FFS, because they’re being used to “prevent” the Democrats from having to actually do any work. There are four (count ‘em FOUR) SCOTUS justices that are ripe for impeachment (three for perjury and contempt of Congress and the other for multiple offenses regarding refusal to recuse, undeclared gifts and donations and allowing his wife to use his office to fundraise for the GOP) and yet nobody aside from AOC has even made a token noise in that direction. Since doing something about these issues is LITERALLY CONGRESS’ JOB and they aren’t bothering why is it MY responsibility to handle things that I literally have NO power or control over? Oh, and I’ve pointed out that I’m literally NOT a constituent of the Democratic party–I AM a constituent of Earl Blumenauer, Ron Wyden and Jeff Merkley however and yes, they all do hear from me on the regular for all the good it does. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862/140 "2022-07-01T20:18:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What you seem to miss entirely is that the party needs the support of the people in order to do anything. They _can’t_ do anything but sit on their hands if the constituents refuse to support them. TBF, though, ISTM that many mainstream Democrats are willing to tolerate this reluctance from voters to the right of them, but not voters to the left of them. As Miller put it, > [@](#): > > Remember, if a candidate alienates progressives, and they don’t vote, it’s the progressives’ fault for insisting on purity tests. But if a candidate alienates centrists, and they don’t vote, it’s the progressives’ fault for being too extreme. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-clinton-hating-dems-feeling-now/966862.md?page=8)