# How are the majority of prosecution lawyers qualified compared to defence lawyers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-majority-of-prosecution-lawyers-qualified-compared-to-defence-lawyers/855071 "2020-06-04T20:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-majority-of-prosecution-lawyers-qualified-compared-to-defence-lawyers/855071/41 "2020-06-11T15:52:58Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > One of my brothers is a lawyer, and he claims the advantages of top-tier lawyers as compared to ordinary talent is enormously over-rated. (He thinks there can be a difference, but that it’s very small.) In addition, he believes that prosecutors will often be more likely to throw everything they’ve got and be less inclined to settle if they’re trying to get a feather in their cap by notching a win against a well-known lawyer. > > Recent cases involving people like Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein (etc. etc. for any number of other famous wealthy people who failed to beat the rap) seem to support that view. These guys could afford top tier legal talent but they were found just as guilty as if they’d been represented by public defenders. I remember talking to a lawyer who came to do a case in a more remote town. He said - the judge knows if he screws over my client, I will appeal. Meanwhile, the local lawyers are too scared to appeal, because they have to face him every day and if they appeal a case he’ll get even by screwing over ALL their clients, given the discretion a judge has in sentencing. He knows I only see him once or twice a year, so if he screws my client I will appeal and not look like a whiner constantly flooding the appeal court." This was my impression that absolute power - like we see today with police - can bring out the best or worst in judges; and even in a moderately sized city, the legal community especially at the top is a very small clique with “interesting” personalities. My impression of “top tier lawyers” from articles and intervews I see is that the judge sees their reputation and connections more than their legal acumen…? And they’re all in the same country clubs, probably even golf together. Or is that from a long ago gone time? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-majority-of-prosecution-lawyers-qualified-compared-to-defence-lawyers/855071/42 "2020-06-11T19:41:26Z")
I’ve been a prosecutor and I’ve done criminal defense. In almost 30 years of practice in Ohio courts, much of that involved in criminal law in one way or another, including now as a magistrate, I’d say neither prosecutors nor defense lawyers, all in all, have a particular edge or are, as a rule, more qualified than the other. You can find very good and very bad lawyers on both sides of the courtroom. Your average public defender is going to be better at trying a criminal case than your average private counsel who only occasionally does so, though, just because the PD has more experience doing that kind of work, day in and day out. > [@Moriarty](#): > > In Florida, where I recently relocated, defense lawyers have to be specifically qualified before they can defend death penalty cases (e.g. have practiced for a minimum amount of time, done a minimum number of complex cases, have taken certain “continuing education” classes…), and defending a felony also requires certain continuing education credits first. I’m not sure how wide spread this is, but it wasn’t an issue in Colorado, where I moved from (although Colorado recently ended its death penalty). > > Prosecutors, who work for the state, typically start at a low level (e.g. traffic or misdemeanors) before moving on to more serious felony cases. That’s all true in Ohio, too, except that any lawyer here may defend a felony. (Some just shouldn’t, though, obviously). When I started as a prosecutor, you would begin in either the juvenile court or the child support unit, and after six months or so be reassigned to the other. Only then would you be assigned to the felony trial unit. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > …My father, who was (now retired) a US District Court judge, always found it somewhat amusing that a first-year associate at a Wall Street firm made more money than he did. He didn’t mind, he just thought it was funny. It is a little funny, but US District Court judges have lifetime tenure, pay that can only go up, enormous power in their own courtrooms, a relatively light workload (depending on the jurisdiction), a big staff, and prestige out the wazoo. I’ve never been particularly persuaded by arguments that federal judges are badly underpaid, because I know there are many, _many_ smart, capable, experienced lawyers who would jump at the chance to become a federal judge if they could, and some (even many) who would be willing to take a pay cut to land such a sweet gig. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Somewhat true, but it’s a little more complicated. There are too many third-tier (and lower) law schools, basically. > > If you graduate with a JD from Harvard or Yale or Columbia, or even NYU, you won’t have any trouble finding a job. You’ll be recruited. The big firms actively court grads from those schools. They send recruiters to campus. > > On the other hand, if you graduate from WMU-Cooley, even near the top of the class, you’re up the creek without a paddle… Agreed. Too many young, wet-behind-the-ears lawyers are chasing the same kind of clients these days. I know a lot of young lawyers, esp. those in solo practice, who are really struggling to pay their bills (including massive student-loan debt). > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > One of my brothers is a lawyer, and he claims the advantages of top-tier lawyers as compared to ordinary talent is enormously over-rated. (He thinks there can be a difference, but that it’s very small.) In addition, he believes that prosecutors will often be more likely to throw everything they’ve got and be less inclined to settle if they’re trying to get a feather in their cap by notching a win against a well-known lawyer. > > Recent cases involving people like Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein (etc. etc. for any number of other famous wealthy people who failed to beat the rap) seem to support that view. These guys could afford top tier legal talent but they were found just as guilty as if they’d been represented by public defenders. Also agreed, all in all. > [@Melbourne](#): > > …In our recent high-profile catholic-church sex-abuse case, the highly paid lawyers couldn’t carry the jury, couldn’t carry the court of first appeal, but could carry the final appeal court. The lawyers I’ve talked to think that is a fair representation of the tactics of the lawyers involved, but lay most of the blame on the defendant for choosing those lawyers. Reasonable doubt for a reasonable price! > [@md2000](#): > > I remember talking to a lawyer who came to do a case in a more remote town. He said - the judge knows if he screws over my client, I will appeal. Meanwhile, the local lawyers are too scared to appeal, because they have to face him every day and if they appeal a case he’ll get even by screwing over ALL their clients, given the discretion a judge has in sentencing. He knows I only see him once or twice a year, so if he screws my client I will appeal and not look like a whiner constantly flooding the appeal court." > > This was my impression that absolute power - like we see today with police - can bring out the best or worst in judges; and even in a moderately sized city, the legal community especially at the top is a very small clique with “interesting” personalities. My impression of “top tier lawyers” from articles and intervews I see is that the judge sees their reputation and connections more than their legal acumen…? And they’re all in the same country clubs, probably even golf together. > > Or is that from a long ago gone time? I haven’t seen that kind of thing too much in my career, but it all depends on where you end up practicing. Small-town judges do have considerable sway, and some of them enjoy it a bit too much. When I was a Legal Aid staff lawyer, one of the low-population rural counties in our service area had the same guy serving simultaneously as the sole Common Pleas, juvenile, probate and domestic relations judge (in most jurisdictions of any size, that would be four different people). If you got on his bad side, you were screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-majority-of-prosecution-lawyers-qualified-compared-to-defence-lawyers/855071/43 "2020-06-11T20:07:40Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > It is a little funny, but US District Court judges have lifetime tenure, pay that can only go up, enormous power in their own courtrooms, a relatively light workload (depending on the jurisdiction), a big staff, and prestige out the wazoo. I’ve never been particularly persuaded by arguments that federal judges are badly underpaid, because I know there are many, _many_ smart, capable, experienced lawyers who would jump at the chance to become a federal judge if they could, and some (even many) who would be willing to take a pay cut to land such a sweet gig. All true, and, as I said, my father was never upset about his relatively low (compared to a Wall Street lawyers with far less experience, or no experience at all) compensation. He really did think it was funny. Aso to the light workload, I think he would argue that. But he was a judge in the Southern District of New York, which is pretty busy. Staff? I don’t know for sure. I remember a secretary, a couple of clerks (maybe more – maybe it was two when he became a senior judge?), a courtroom deputy. That said, sure, his workload was lighter than that of a mid-level associate at Cravath or Simpson Thacher – they’re expected to work 12 hours a day, six days a week, and be on call around the clock, every day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-the-majority-of-prosecution-lawyers-qualified-compared-to-defence-lawyers/855071.md?page=2)