# How are there any undecided voters left? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 16, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761 "2020-09-16T14:00:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/41 "2020-09-18T13:37:49Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > COVID-19 is a different story. But even there, for a lot of people, it’s entirely unclear what the president has to do with it, or what difference it would make to whether Biden or Trump were the president. You have to have some cognitive bandwidth devoted to the issues to have any sort of firm opinion on who would be a better choice to deal with COVID - and a lot of people just don’t have that bandwidth available, or don’t consider the president to be relevant. Governors, state legislatures, county officials, mayors, city councils, state, county, and municipal public health authorities - these are the people on the sharp end of the public health policy spear. For people paying close attention to government public health policies and responses to COVID, it’s the state and local officials who are probably more salient. But surely even they can see the difference between what the health recommendations are (wear masks, social distance, don’t have big social activities) and the actions and words of Trump (refusing to wear a mask, pushing unproven and unsound treatments, holding giant rallies with no social distancing, etc)? Even if the agree more with Trump (Hey, it’s all covid theater, what about my rights?, etc), they still have to see the difference between what they are being told and what he is doing and saying. Right? > [@](#): > > And, insulated people aren’t necessarily inundated with opinions about what is going on. I know people who pay attention to the weather, and maybe sports, and that’s about it as far as “news”. They just don’t see most politics as relevant to them. They may vote, out of tradition or a vague sense of civic duty, but they just don’t pay much attention to the issues or the actors involved. But they have Facebook, and they have friends and neighbors, some of whom are opiniated and not silent about it. > [@](#): > > And, sure, others are inundated with opinions about what is going on. But unless sorting through those opinions is salient to you, and you devote cognitive bandwidth to it, all of those opinions just wind up being cognitive noise. Okay, that might be fair. Listen to the rant or waive it off, go on with your life. Grumble about how unfair it is that you can’t go get a beer with your friends but not pay attention to the President saying you should be able to go get a beer and the Governor saying “No beer for you!” > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Many people are profoundly uncomfortable with the idea of “voting against” one side by voting for the other. They want somebody to vote _for_ , not somebody to vote _against_ . So even if the voter dislikes Trump and all he stands for, if Biden isn’t good enough to vote _for_ , then voting _for_ a 3rd party or no-vote is “better” psycho-emotionally than voting pro-Biden which is really voting _against_ Trump. I can get that. “What’s Biden offering that I want?” > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Mathematically, a vote for anyone other than Biden is 1-for-1 helpful to Trump. Many people understand that. But math is not what rules the mind; it’s emotion. That’s a more complicated argument for a different thread. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Another factor somebody mentioned that bears repeating. Every single voter who traditionally / typically votes R but is now between unhappy and appalled by Trump is struggling with the dilemma that he/she dislikes everything they think they know about the Democratic platform. Much of which is probably false, but that’s a different story for a different thread. > > So it turns into “How awful do I fear a D president will be versus how awful to I fear Trump will be?” Once again there’s no good choice to be had once you phrase it that way. The way I see it, most of those people will vote for Trump. They will vote their wallet or their policy preferences over their conscience. “He’s a turd, but he’s _our_ turd.” If they’re getting what they want policy-wise, then they will ignore or hold their nose over his behavior. > [@Velocity](#): > > Bernie voters who are unsure whether to vote for Biden, or let Trump be president for four more years (which would make the progressive left even riper and stronger by 2024, whereas a Biden presidency might stifle the left wing.) That’s an interesting thought process I hadn’t considered. I disagree with that notion, but others could be having it. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > “Plant, I liked your man, but I didn’t think he could win, so I voted for the other one.” That seems ridiculous directly as worded, but it’s not ridiculous if you examine the scenario. Let me reword it and see if this makes sense. “Plant, I liked your man, but I didn’t think he could win [in the general election], so I voted for the other one [in the primary].” I’m not saying that’s what your conversation was about, but it’s common enough. > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I assume I’m in the minority, because I usually am. A not insignificant part of me wants Trump to get a second term. If he’s hamstrung us as badly as I think he has, then all that will happen is Biden will be given the keys to a viciously sabotaged car that will crash itself no matter who is driving. If Biden wins the election, everything will crumble on his watch and the orcs will all hoot about what a loser he is and what a fine job Trump did and nobody learns anything. Part of the solution to that is not just voting in Biden/Harris, but voting in Dems to the House and Senate (and any local offices you have). Break up the Mitch obstacle in the Senate and retain (or increase) control of the House, and see what can be done. > [@](#): > > Part of me is curious to see just how bad the Republican Party will let things get before they yank him from office. Um, given how bad it’s already gotten, I’m strangely curious about that answer, but I’m not interested in finding out that way. > [@](#): > > If we end up crumbling like USSR, oh well–the soviet republics didn’t all fall into a sink hole, and neither will we. The coasties can form a modern government that they like, and the heartland and south can have their theocracies. And Utah can be Utah. So, no, they didn’t fall into a sinkhole, but there sure was a lot of damage done and lives lost. I mean, think Yugoslavia (Bosnia-Herzegovina) or the Romanian Revolution of 1989. And even though the states have populations with different majority members, all are solidly integrated with folks of the other party embedded in the state, too. I can’t imagine any breakup of the United States that would not result in a collapse of the economy (again), or the disruption of families, or the possibility of mass migrations, or even the likelihood of armed groups in major conflicts. Maybe _eventually_ they could form something like you describe, but it wouldn’t be pretty or painless getting there. > [@](#): > > But, it’d be easier on everyone if Biden were to win, even if he ends up not being able to clean up the mess. Understatement of the decade. Thanks, **Max\_S** , for some actual opinions from those concerned. > [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Do I prefer Trump? To What? I preferred Buttigieg, but no way can I vote for Biden. Why can’t there be good candidates? Sounds like a topic for a different thread. I’m genuinely interested in your position. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/42 "2020-09-18T14:00:01Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > “Plant, I liked your man, but I didn’t think he could win [in the general election], so I voted for the other one [in the primary].” No, it was the general election. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/43 "2020-09-18T14:09:48Z")
How many supposed “undecideds” are actually Trump supporters trying to drive down Democratic voters? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/44 "2020-09-18T14:15:48Z")
I don’t know what to tell you. If you refuse to believe that there are some people that just don’t pay much attention to presidential politics, that just don’t read all of the Facebook feeds on it (or just aren’t on social media), that just don’t discuss politics much with their family and neighbors or just don’t pay much attention when family and neighbors discuss it…_shrug_. They really, truly, exist. I know some of them. If queried about their choice, they’ll reply, “I just haven’t thought about it much”. Of course, some people who say that are just avoiding an argument, and it’s likely that some “undecideds” just don’t want to discuss their actual choice, even with a pollster. But this is a fact of human existence. Many things that are vitally important to _you_ just aren’t vitally important to _me_, and vice versa. Presidential politics are just very remote to a _lot_ of people. They just really, honestly, don’t pay much attention, don’t have strong opinions, and just don’t make their decision ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/45 "2020-09-18T14:22:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How many supposed “undecideds” are actually Trump supporters trying to drive down Democratic voters? Personally, I’d bet essentially none. You think that there are statistically significant numbers of Trump supporters who are strategically lying to pollsters in an attempt to manipulate voter turnout? Of course, I could be wrong. What evidence is there that this is happening? What evidence is there that this is something that ever happens? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/46 "2020-09-18T14:30:00Z")
You haven’t noticed any posts on the internet, or even on this board, from “undecideds” whose anti-Biden posts far outnumber their anti-Trump posts? Driving down the vote has been a Republican strategy for many years and it is easier to reach the target audience if you pretend not to be a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/47 "2020-09-18T14:38:39Z")
How does lying to a pollster in an anonymous survey help a random Trump supporter “reach the target audience”? If you’re just saying that some specific individuals who claim to be “undecided” in specific conversations are really Trump supporters…ok, that probably happens. Probably happens the other way, too. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/48 "2020-09-18T14:44:17Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Probably happens the other way, too. Yep, that’s exactly how to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/49 "2020-09-18T16:07:07Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > For a lot of people, who the president is just doesn’t have any salience. They just don’t see it having any impact on their day-to-day lives. … > > Related to that, people only have so much cognitive bandwidth. For a lot of people, that cognitive bandwidth is pretty much filled with day-to-day concerns, … I think this is pretty much the answer. This question comes up every presidential election. Those of us who pay attention to such things can’t imagine why EVERYONE couldn’t find a reason to decide between 2 very different candidates. But I sorta analogize to how folk merge. Do you get over when they say your lane will end, or do you wait until the lane actually ends? I think many people simply think that they don’t HAVE to decide until November, so they WON’T - for whatever reason. What I REALLY don’t understand, is someone who says they are going to vote for a 3d party candidate. At least in a contested state. Hell, I’m in a blue state, so it really doesn’t matter whether I vote for Bugs Bunny. I dunno - I guess I can see how it is theoretically worth recording your support for a philosophy other than the 2 major parties, but in an election that is anywhere near close, I can’t understand why you would not try to increase the chances of what you perceive to be the lesser of 2 evils. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/50 "2020-09-18T16:09:42Z")
I so want an actual reporter to ask Biden a tough question. Hasn’t happened yet. Maybe Wallace will come through. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/51 "2020-09-18T16:12:55Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I so want an actual reporter to ask Biden a tough question. Hasn’t happened yet. Maybe Wallace will come through . What type of “tough question” do you have in mind? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/52 "2020-09-18T16:13:10Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > What I REALLY don’t understand, is someone who says they are going to vote for a 3d party candidate. At least in a contested state. Hell, I’m in a blue state, so it really doesn’t matter whether I vote for Bugs Bunny. > > I dunno - I guess I can see how it is theoretically worth recording your support for a philosophy other than the 2 major parties, but in an election that is anywhere near close, I can’t understand why you would not try to increase the chances of what you perceive to be the lesser of 2 evils. For some people, it is genuinely hard to tell which is worse. Trump has his thousand scandals, rank incompetence and ignorance, narcissism and corruption. Biden is a decent guy in comparison, but his victory would embolden the SJWs, Antifa, and signify a repudiation of the good portion of the pro-Trump movement. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/53 "2020-09-18T16:13:32Z")
Stepping aside for those who will take it all just because you can’t have it all doesn’t seem to be all that smart. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/54 "2020-09-18T16:21:37Z")
About his son’s unqualified dealings with China. About his record and his switching positions. I am sure Trump will come up with something. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/55 "2020-09-18T16:25:05Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > About his son’s unqualified dealings with China. About his record and his switching positions He was asked about switching positions on fracking, and he answered it. I’m sure he could answer any questions about his son, too, but it doesn’t seem relevant to whether _Joe Biden_ should be president or not. If I’m running, please don’t make me explain everything my daughters have done. I love them, but I can’t defend all their decisions. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/56 "2020-09-18T16:32:13Z")
By the way, in the latest [Quinnipiac poll](https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3671) I could find, from September 2nd, “Don’t Know/No Answer” was only 3% of likely voters. That’s vanishingly small, within the margin of error of 3.8%. So, “How are there any undecided voters left?” Statistically, there aren’t actually any undecided voters left. Ok, that’s an overstatement. Among “independents” (non-Democrat, non-Republican likely voters), the number of undecideds is larger, at 6%. That’s outside the margin of error, so they do exist. But it’s still a small number. And the “Don’t Know/No Answer” category includes both genuine undecideds and respondents who prefer not to answer. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/57 "2020-09-18T17:07:52Z")
I never understand the flak politicians get for switching positions. I would much rather vote for someone who looked at facts, listened to the people, and changed his/her mind on something that someone who will blindly stick to the views they chose early on and never reconsider. I don’t believe all the same things I did 20 years ago. I was younger and dumber then. Why should my elected officials not evolve over time as well? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/58 "2020-09-18T17:19:28Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > I never understand the flak politicians get for switching positions. Trump supporters don’t seem to mind he was once pro-choice, pro gun control, and a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/59 "2020-09-18T18:25:02Z")
His son was a expert lawyer and qualified to deal with the Ukraine. And what a adult son does is not a question to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761/60 "2020-09-18T19:55:23Z")
The Times yesterday had a reporter talk to a couple of undecideds. One interview really struck me. She started out by saying that she would most definitely vote, but she wasn’t sure whom yet. She described herself as fiscally conservative but socially liberal. To me that sounds like a perfect fit for the Dems since any idea that the Reps are fiscally conservative is fantasy. The three recent presidents who blew up the deficit are Reagan, Bush 43, and Trump. All with tax cuts that were supposed to pay for themselves in increased productivity and didn’t come close. She went on to say that the three most important issues for her were women’s health, K-12 education, and ending poverty. But she had no idea how the parties stood on these questions. She added that she never looked at political ads because they were so negative. And so she is still undecided. Staggering! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-there-any-undecided-voters-left/920761.md?page=4)