# How are we going to make plastic once the oil runs out? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 20, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753 "2006-01-20T00:42:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/1 "2006-01-20T00:42:00Z")
I heard you needed oil to make plastic. Since we’re going to run out of oil someday (some people say in as soon as 50 years) how are we going to make plastic? Is there an alternative method that doesn’t involve oil? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/2 "2006-01-20T00:46:44Z")
Petroleum sources won’t ever truly run out. There are too many sources for it including North American coal reserves that can be considered nearly infinite for that type of purpose. They will probably become more expensive which has its beauty as part of a self-regulating system. Supply and demand will determine where it is truly needed and wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/3 "2006-01-20T00:49:02Z")
[Bakelite](http://americablog.blogspot.com/)! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/4 "2006-01-20T01:17:06Z")
If you are short of hydrocarbons, you can always fall back on carbohydrates. Cellulose is a great precursor for plastic. [/not a chemical engineer, may be confused, but blessed with the easy confidence that comes from near-ignorance.] ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/5 "2006-01-20T01:19:38Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Bakelite](http://americablog.blogspot.com/)! I’m sorry, but what does that blog have to do with Bakelite, or any other plastic? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/6 "2006-01-20T01:24:44Z")
[Celluloid plastics](http://web1.caryacademy.org/chemistry/rushin/StudentProjects/CompoundWebSites/2000/Cellulose/uses.htm). [Bakelite](http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blbakerlite.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/7 "2006-01-20T01:32:58Z")
> [@George Kaplin](#): > > I heard you needed oil to make plastic. You heard wrong. > [@](#): > > Since we’re going to run out of oil someday… No, we are not. All else aside oil is a renewable resource and can never run out. > [@](#): > > …(some people say in as soon as 50 years) Some people say they have been anally probed by aliens too. Their claims are slightly more believable than people claiming we will run out of oil in 50 years time. > [@](#): > > how are we going to make plastic? Is there an alternative method that doesn’t involve oil? This question has been done to death. Do a search on any of the numerous ‘peak oil’ threads. In simple terms there is nothing magical about oil that is required to make plastics. We use oil to make plastics because it is a cheap and convenient source of hydrogen and carbon. When it ceases to be cheap and convenient industry will simply move over to coal, and when that ceases to be cheap and convenient it will move over to plant biomass. And if that ceases to be cheap and convenient we can extract hydrogen and carbon directly form the air if we need to. IOW there are an infinite number of methods that don’t involve oil. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/8 "2006-01-20T01:34:30Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > I’m sorry, but what does that blog have to do with Bakelite, or any other plastic? 😕 Sorry, pasted the wrong link. [Bakelite - The Material of a Thousand Uses](http://www.bakelitmuseum.de/) There are plenty of other feedstocks for making plastics. Even if we run out of coal, there’s cellulose, terpenes and phenols from wood, limonene from oranges _etc._ Products will get more expensive if we have to move away from geological hydrocarbons, but there’ll always be some way to make plastics. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/9 "2006-01-20T01:45:36Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > All else aside oil is a renewable resource and can never run out. While I agree that Chicken-Littleism is uncalled for, that’s just silly. Petroleum is renewed on a geologic time scale. Our society is a _little_ more fast-paced than that. We’re obviously going to have to come up with some new ideas – and we will, long before things get to the _Road Warrior_ stage, although that would at least be entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/10 "2006-01-20T02:05:42Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Petroleum is renewed on a geologic time scale. No, petroleum is renewed on every timescale. There isn’t some special reason why no petroleum only gets created one day every 10, 000 years. Saying that petroleum is renewed on geological timescales and so can’t keep pace with society is as ridciulous as saying that trees get renewed on a decadal timesscale and so can’t keep pace with society. What you need to realise is that these things are ongoing processes. Some tree matured yesterday, some petroleum was created yesterday. And some more willl come into being tomorrow. Whether our current use of mineral oil for polymer prroduction is higher or lower than natural replacement rates I really couldn’t say. I would not be in the least surprised if it were lower. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/11 "2006-01-20T02:28:05Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > What you need to realise is that these things are ongoing processes. Some tree matured yesterday, some petroleum was created yesterday. And some more willl come into being tomorrow. Yes, but we’ve used a significant portion of oil that’s built up over _millennia._ The formation of petroleum depends on geologic accretion – tremendous pressure, heat, and time. If we didn’t use it faster than it builds up, oil wells wouldn’t run dry. There’s more organic material in the ground, and it’ll be oil _eventually_. Not soon enough to suit our current usage. > [@Blake](#): > > Whether our current use of mineral oil for polymer prroduction is higher or lower than natural replacement rates I really couldn’t say. I would not be in the least surprised if it were lower. Neither would I, but we burn much more oil than we use for manufacturing. There’s no way that it’s renewed as fast as we tear through it. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/12 "2006-01-20T02:34:18Z")
None of which in any way invalidates the point that oil is being renewed daily and will thus never run out. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/13 "2006-01-20T03:16:03Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > None of which in any way invalidates the point that oil is being renewed daily and will thus never run out. Only if you refuse to equate “lacking the available oil to suit the needs of industry” with “running out.” Something in the equation will change in the next hundred years or so, whether it be the degree of our reliance on hydrocarbon fuels or the way we get them. No panic, but we simply don’t have the “free” petroleum to sustain our consumption, and the rate that the Earth makes us for it ain’t gonna cut it. Good for now, but we’re going to have to switch over to synthetic hydrocarbons or something more novel at some point. But as you said, this has been done to death. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/14 "2006-01-20T04:50:55Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > None of which in any way invalidates the point that oil is being renewed daily and will thus never run out. Yes it does. By your logic, Easter Island could never have run out of trees because as they were cutting them down others were still growing. If you continue to extract it faster than it renews then you _will_ run out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/15 "2006-01-20T05:09:03Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > None of which in any way invalidates the point that oil is being renewed daily and will thus never run out. What? That’s like sticking a hose into a water tower and then claiming the town will never run out of water. It’s technically true in some bizarrely limited sense but of no use practically. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-are-we-going-to-make-plastic-once-the-oil-runs-out/340753/16 "2006-01-20T05:09:33Z")
We’ll never run out of whales. They’re an infinite resource, and keep manufacturing more of themselves. Not.