# How bad a scandal for you to \*not\* vote for Trump's 2020 Democratic opponent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 17, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704 "2019-02-17T03:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/61 "2019-02-18T17:10:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, a Democrat who’s sufficiently hostile to Trump supporters might convince them to… support Trump? A liberal elite who punches down and scorns a section of society would certainly create a backlash. Dealing with the backlash would take time, and would be a distraction from the candidate’s main message. If the backlash was strong enough, it could move centrist voters from the Anybody But Trump camp, to A Pox on Both Their Houses. For an example from the UK, Gordon Brown had a gaffe where he called an elderly woman a bigot. It certainly hurt his campaign and arguably cost him his prime ministership. > **[How Gordon Brown's bigot gaffe unfolded](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/apr/29/gordon-brown-gillian-duffy-bigot)** > > PM's high-risk strategy of taking to the streets backfires as unguarded remark leads to afternoon of contrition ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/62 "2019-02-18T19:26:12Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/63 "2019-02-18T19:35:18Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I am no fan of Weiner, but the country would be _ **much** _ better off with him as president then Trump. I agree the country would be better off with a President Weiner instead of Trump, but if that were the matchup in 2020 I would have to vote for neither. He’s a sharp perv, but I am convinced that he is going to do that thing he does, again and again, with kids around even, no matter the stakes. The worst thing anyone can call Trump is, IMHO, “The Leader of the GOP.” He represents them all, he is who they chose, and he is an ignorant, possibly treasonous piece of shit. That reflects on all of his supporters. We don’t want a guy like Weiner as Leader of the Democratic Party, jacking off in the Oval Office with teenagers over his smart phone. Nope. I am not a purity test kind of guy, and I am probably more willing to compromise with a dem candidate than ever before. But I am an independent who will probably never vote for the GOP ever again after what they have become. Let’s not do that to the Dems as well. Pretty unnecessary sermon though, the GOP is corrupt all the way through, Weiner will never get nominated and even if he did, I doubt he would have the Gillibrands of Congress covering up for him out of raw party loyalty. Still, no Weiner! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/64 "2019-02-18T19:38:37Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I agree the country would be better off with a President Weiner instead of Trump, but if that were the matchup in 2020 I would have to vote for neither. He’s a sharp perv, but I am convinced that he is going to do that thing he does, again and again, with kids around even, no matter the stakes. The worst thing anyone can call Trump is, IMHO, “The Leader of the GOP.” He represents them all, he is who they chose, and he is an ignorant, possibly treasonous piece of shit. That reflects on all of his supporters. > > We don’t want a guy like Weiner as Leader of the Democratic Party, jacking off in the Oval Office with teenagers over his smart phone. Nope. I am not a purity test kind of guy, and I am probably more willing to compromise with a dem candidate than ever before. But I am an independent who will probably never vote for the GOP ever again after what they have become. Let’s not do that to the Dems as well. > > Pretty unnecessary sermon though, the GOP is corrupt all the way through, Weiner will never get nominated and even if he did, I doubt he would have the Gillibrands of Congress covering up for him out of raw party loyalty. Still, no Weiner! :mad: I agree completely, on all points. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/65 "2019-02-18T19:46:35Z")
You know that evil clown thing that floats and eats kids? I’d put up his sign in my yard, put his stickers on my car, and campaign for it door to door. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/66 "2019-02-18T19:59:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’d put this thread in Elections except that that forum is now too cluttered with all the “March Madness” threads: > Fast forward to October 2020: Trump is running for reelection as the Republican nominee and the Democrats have nominated someone like Kamala, Biden, Beto or Warren to oppose him. > > Now, suppose that some major scandal came to light about the Democratic candidate. How bad would it have to be for you to **not** vote for him/her? (This question obviously is irrelevant to Trump-supporting Dopers.) > > Presumably it would have to be something a lot worse than blackface or a racist comment. What would it take for you to either vote Trump, vote 3rd party, or abstain from voting entirely? What single scandal by a Democrat would top Trump’s lifetime of scams, scandals, slanders and general all-around sleaze? It would have to be pretty fucking huge, don’t you think? Unless you are just looking for any lame excuse to vote for Trump, that is. In _your_ opinion, what would a Democrat have to do to be worse than Trump? Because I can’t think of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/67 "2019-02-18T21:15:51Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I am no fan of Weiner, but the country would be _ **much** _ better off with him as president then Trump. But the question was what would make me NOT vote for the Democratic candidate, not whether it would make me vote for Trump. A choice between Trump and Weiner would make me more likely to leave the country than to vote for either. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/68 "2019-02-18T21:29:08Z")
The Democratic candidate could dig up both my dead grandmothers and sexually desecrate the bodies repeatedly and publicly, and I would still vote for him or her over Chump. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/69 "2019-02-18T21:37:44Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > But the question was what would make me NOT vote for the Democratic candidate, not whether it would make me vote for Trump. > > A choice between Trump and Weiner would make me more likely to leave the country than to vote for either. The problem, of course, is that because of the system, not voting for the Democratic candidate _is_ voting for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/70 "2019-02-18T21:45:40Z")
I can only think of one person I would \*not \*vote for against Trump. Don’t make the same mistake over again, Dems. > [@kunilou](#): > > [Anthony Weiner has been released from prison](https://www.npr.org/2019/02/18/695640275/ex-congressman-anthony-weiner-finishes-prison-term), so I guess the Democrats could theoretically nominate a candidate with enough scandal that I wouldn’t vote for him. Okay. _Two._ Hate that guy. ---
**Author:** ![UnwittingAmericans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d9b06d/32.png) [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/71 "2019-02-18T21:54:37Z")
It’s pretty funny to see people who demanded Al Franken get kicked out of the Senate say they’d vote for him for president. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/72 "2019-02-18T21:57:03Z")
> [@UnwittingAmericans](#): > > It’s pretty funny to see people who demanded Al Franken get kicked out of the Senate say they’d vote for him for president. Why? He committed an infraction, admitted it, and was punished for it. He’s unlikely to re-offend (unlike, say, Weiner), and would make an excellent President. Why is that “pretty funny?” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/73 "2019-02-18T22:04:41Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > The problem, of course, is that because of the system, not voting for the Democratic candidate _is_ voting for Trump. No, it isn’t, it’s only half as beneficial to the non-Democratic frontrunner as is voting for them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/74 "2019-02-18T22:14:12Z")
Given the choice of Franken or his replacement in the Senate, I would choose his replacement. Given the choice of Franken or Trump, I would choose Franken. It is possible for a person to be worse than some people, but better than others. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/75 "2019-02-18T23:03:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It is possible for a person to be worse than some people, but better than others. You can be worse than some of the people some of the time, and better than some of the people some of the time, but you can’t be better than all the people all of the time. Trump, however, can be worse than all of the people all of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/76 "2019-02-18T23:20:51Z")
OK. I’ve finally come up with one thing someone could have as their platform that would cause me to vote for Trump. (jeez, I had to wash my hands after typing that) If a candidate was advocating all out nuclear war with Russia as a way to solve that problem, I’d have to vote against them. Between Trump and death or living in a nuclear wasteland, I’d have to take Trump. Since there’s no way that someone who was calling for the nuking of Russia could win the Dem nomination, I guess I have nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/77 "2019-02-18T23:24:43Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The Democratic candidate could dig up both my dead grandmothers and sexually desecrate the bodies repeatedly and publicly, and I would still vote for him or her over Chump. I don’t know. Kind of takes “skeletons in the closet” to a whole nother level. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/78 "2019-02-18T23:41:13Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > [Anthony Weiner has been released from prison](https://www.npr.org/2019/02/18/695640275/ex-congressman-anthony-weiner-finishes-prison-term), so I guess the Democrats could theoretically nominate a candidate with enough scandal that I wouldn’t vote for him. I’d happily vote for Weiner if it came down to him vs Trump. Both have sexually abused children, so neither is appealing. But at least Weiner isn’t also a treasonous wanna be dictator. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/79 "2019-02-18T23:44:59Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > OK. I’ve finally come up with one thing someone could have as their platform that would cause me to vote for Trump. (jeez, I had to wash my hands after typing that) If a candidate was advocating all out nuclear war with Russia as a way to solve that problem, I’d have to vote against them. Between Trump and death or living in a nuclear wasteland, I’d have to take Trump. > > Since there’s no way that someone who was calling for the nuking of Russia could win the Dem nomination, I guess I have nothing to worry about. I know this is hypothetical, but I’m curious how much risk of nuclear war you’d accept to vote against Donald Trump. You’ve already said that if the Dem nominee was advocating for all out nuclear war with Russia, you’d vote against them. Let’s call that something like 100% probability of nuclear war with Russia. What if the Dem candidate was playing coy with whether they’d nuke Russia or not, or said, “on my first day in office, I’ll flip a coin, and if it comes up tails, I’m going to nuke Russia”. Would you vote for this candidate, with the 50% probability of nuclear war, over Donald Trump? What about if it was only 25% chance? In short, how much risk of nuclear war could you tolerate to vote against Donald Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704/80 "2019-02-18T23:51:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I know this is hypothetical, but I’m curious how much risk of nuclear war you’d accept to vote against Donald Trump. You’ve already said that if the Dem nominee was advocating for all out nuclear war with Russia, you’d vote against them. Let’s call that something like 100% probability of nuclear war with Russia. What if the Dem candidate was playing coy with whether they’d nuke Russia or not, or said, “on my first day in office, I’ll flip a coin, and if it comes up tails, I’m going to nuke Russia”. Would you vote for this candidate, with the 50% probability of nuclear war, over Donald Trump? What about if it was only 25% chance? In short, how much risk of nuclear war could you tolerate to vote against Donald Trump? 22.3 % is the most I could accept to not vote against Trump. The coin flipping part makes him/her sound almost as impulsive as Trump, so I’m worried about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-a-scandal-for-you-to-not-vote-for-trumps-2020-democratic-opponent/829704.md?page=5)