# How bad are circuses? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 20, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758 "2011-07-20T20:40:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/41 "2011-07-21T05:15:36Z")
Re-reading my reply, I see I’ve mostly addressed alleged abuse of animals (or lack thereof). I want to add that many of these animals very obviously enjoy their working relationship with people. Elephants can be very eager to please because it’s stimulating for them to work with humans. They’re intelligent, and the work is challenging and interesting. To me it’s just as natural as a border collie that works with a human to take care of sheep. The obvious enjoyment that a dog gets from cooperating with humans is easily recognizable in elephants and other animals. Big cats are a bit more temperamental and can be unpredicable, especially tigers. But it depends on the individual animal and the relationship with its trainer. I was told monkeys were considered the most dangerous animals to work with, and I think that’s why they’re seen less often in circuses. One trainer told me he disliked them because they were twice as smart as humans and five times as strong. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/42 "2011-07-21T05:24:57Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > You went to a **carnival** (not a circus) It had a big tent, a ringmaster and simulated calliope music. That’s circus enough for me. Frankly, for me the main draw of the circus was always the displays of human skill and ingenuity. I’ve seen “classic” circuses - the Ringling Brothers in the late 70’s - and it was the guys and gals flying through the air who would impress me the most. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/43 "2011-07-21T11:11:45Z")
Back in the 70’s a circus stayed overnight close to our rural town. My dog went wandering that night and came back smelling as if he had rolled in elephant shit. That was enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/44 "2011-07-21T14:23:19Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Originally Posted by Susanann > I am not aware of any current great zoo animal shortage. It is my guess that if the circuses close then all the workers will be laid off and all/most of the animals will be killed. > > I think the point/intent of the OP is to get rid of ALL circuses, meaning that there would be no other circus in existance to buy them. All the circuses would be gone. > > Moreover, if there are any zoos or parks out there that are well run then they would already have their ideal optimum number of elephants and would not want to buy and feed and excess unneeded number of additional elephants. OTOH, if they are not well run,then who knows how any extra animals would be treated? Pet elephants are not cheap to care for. It’s pretty obvious you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You’re completely off-base interpretation of the OP’s question is pretty revealing. WTF. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/45 "2011-07-21T14:32:17Z")
> [@PapSett](#): > > Not to my knowledge! God forbid-I would never give them a singe thin dime. Ms Derby used to actually train animals for TV, commercials & movies in the 60’s& 70s. > > If I _ever_ find out peta supports PAWS I would be DONE with them. Period. From Googling, it seems that I was mistaken. I am very happy to be so in this case. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/46 "2011-07-21T14:41:35Z")
When my kids were young, I used the circus as an educational experience. I explained why some people do not like the idea of circuses. I explained why IMHO PETA sucks donkey dick (using different terms). We went to the circus and enjoyed some of it. My son (now 17) and daughter (20) chose to never attend again. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/47 "2011-07-21T14:44:58Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > You went to a **carnival** (not a circus) Or a cirque ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/48 "2011-07-21T14:53:53Z")
The OP: > [@filmyak](#): > > OK, friend got me and my son tix to go to the circus tomorrow. How guilty do I need to feel? Seriously, torn up about this because on the one hand, I LOVED the circus as a child and want my son to experience it as well. > > On the other hand, I abhor animal cruelty, and have heard plenty of rumors and allegations. Have their been improvements over the years? Or are circuses as evil towards animals as PETA extremists would have us believe? An interpretation of the OP: > [@Susanann](#): > > I think the point/intent of the OP is to get rid of ALL circuses, meaning that there would be no other circus in existance to buy them. All the circuses would be gone. Therefore: All animals would be killed. Got it! ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/49 "2011-07-21T15:06:38Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > 1. …circus animals are not left uncared for to suffer and die of disease, nor are they eaten while still alive like their wild counterparts. Nor are circus animals slaughtered as soon as they become adults like cows and pigs. Some would say that Circus animals have a better, safer, life than their cousins who are wild and still living(and dying) in Africa. > > 2. …Pet elephants are not cheap to care for. > [@Mach Tuck](#): > > I’m not even going to address Susanann’s comments, because she clearly doesn’t have the first clue about what she’s talking about. > > 1. My experience with performing animals is that they are usually quite well cared for. > > 2. … elephants generally being the most naturally cooperative with people. As was pointed out up-thread, it would be extremely foolish for a trainer to abuse an animal that: A. Is really, really expensive and represents your livelihood and… > . What the heck are you talking about? You are agreeing with me. Thank you for agreeing with me! ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/50 "2011-07-21T15:13:21Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > It’s pretty obvious you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You’re completely off-base interpretation of the OP’s question is pretty revealing. WTF. You’re free to disagree, but please keep it civil. That goes for everyone. Thank you, Ellen Cherry ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/51 "2011-07-21T15:30:07Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > What the heck are you talking about? You are agreeing with me. > > Thank you for agreeing with me! I’m talking about the fact that you obviously have no knowledge of what you’re talking about with regard to circuses, and your uninformed opinions are purely speculative. Any intersection between your spew and reality seems to be coincidental, as with most of your postings on these boards. How about going away and letting the adults talk? I’ve been on these boards for about ten years and have never started a Pit thread about a poster, don’t participate in such threads and I don’t intend to start. But seriously - shut up when you have no knowledge of the subject under discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/52 "2011-07-21T16:03:23Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > So, if we all stop going to circuses, the circuses will go out of business, and they’ll be forced to kill all the clowns? Or release them back into the wild. Last circus I went to, some smiling 20-odd year old asked my kid if he wanted a coloring book. He took it but didn’t have time to look at it before we entered. I checked it out and it was some PETA thing about how horrible circuses were and how the elephants would all die sad and lonely and missing their elephant moms or some shit. Fuck those dudes and their trying to ruin some kid’s day. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/53 "2011-07-21T16:12:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’ve seen “classic” circuses - the Ringling Brothers in the late 70’s - and it was the guys and gals flying through the air who would impress me the most. You went to a **Quidditch match** (not a circus). ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/54 "2011-07-21T16:33:56Z")
Originally Posted by Susanann 1. …circus animals are not left uncared for to suffer and die of disease, nor are they eaten while still alive like their wild counterparts. Nor are circus animals slaughtered as soon as they become adults like cows and pigs. Some would say that Circus animals have a better, safer, life than their cousins who are wild and still living(and dying) in Africa. 2. …Pet elephants are not cheap to care for. > [@Mach Tuck](#): > > I’m not even going to address Susanann’s comments, because she clearly doesn’t have the first clue about what she’s talking about. > > 1. My experience with performing animals is that they are usually quite well cared for. > > 2. … elephants generally being the most naturally cooperative with people. As was pointed out up-thread, it would be extremely foolish for a trainer to abuse an animal that: A. Is really, really expensive and represents your livelihood and… > > I’m talking about the fact that you obviously have no knowledge of what you’re talking about with regard to circuses, . I never worked in a circus, I never said I did. My points before you posted were that circus animals are most likely well cared for, AND, that circus animals can be very expensive to care(feed, training,veterinarian,cleaning,etc) for, esp lions, tigers, elephants, etc. and you in fact seemed to agree with my major points. You came after me and apparently confirmed my earlier major points by reaffirming that circus animals “are usually quite well cared for” and that they are " really, really expensive and represents your livelihood ". If you don’t agree with me that circus animals are likely well cared for, and that circus animals are expensive, then please clarify if you do or dont think those animals are well cared for as well as being expensive. On the other hand, if you do agree with me, then I have no idea why you seem to be complaining about my points while at the very same time agreeing with my points. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/55 "2011-07-21T16:38:46Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Or release them back into the wild. > . Do you really think that an animal living in a circus for years and years, perhaps born in captivity, would stand a chance to survive in the wild, or even be accepted by the other wild lions, tigers, or elephants whose space he invades? I don’t think so. Releasing in the wild is not an viable option. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/56 "2011-07-21T16:40:33Z")
Clowns, dear. He was talking about clowns. It was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/57 "2011-07-21T16:47:17Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Clowns, dear. He was talking about clowns. Judging by the coherency of her previous posts in this thread, she probably was too. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/58 "2011-07-21T16:50:20Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Clowns, dear. He was talking about clowns. It was a joke. Yes, but releasing them into the wild is still not an option. Those cars may \*look \*small, but they pollute like hell. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/59 "2011-07-21T16:51:02Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > You went to a **carnival** (not a circus) That was enough right there to know you have nothing to add to this topic. I don’t care what you think, whether you agree, disagree or feel our posts have any shared points at all. It’s like if a two-year old were to side with me in a debate about world politics - it wouldn’t really matter because the kid’s lack of knowledge on the subject makes their opinion irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758/60 "2011-07-21T16:56:05Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > From Googling, it seems that I was mistaken. I am very happy to be so in this case. 🙂 YAY! Very very VERY glad to hear that! I have a soft spot in my heart for Pat Derby & her organization because of her book written in the 70’s- The Lady and Her Tiger. Anyone who loves animals should read it… and be prepared to both laugh and cry. My autographed copy is one of my most prized possessions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-are-circuses/589758.md?page=4)