Estimates on the bottom range from mid-2009 to late 2010. See this thread.
In 1930, about 1/3 of all Americans held jobs directly related to agriculture. An extended drought killed off thousands of family farms and contributed greatly to the extended depression. Today that is not a factor.
They still are not doing it. Foreclosure rates are still growing. It needs a huge program to help and that has not happened yet. Maybe the new bill will address it.
Some mortgagers are saying they might be willing to adjust toward the new value of the house. People owing 250 K on a house now worth 150 ,want out.
BINGO. The Republicans tried (and keep trying) giving money to the rich (individuals and large businesses) but failed because those demographics don’t tend to “invest” their spoils in the economy by creating more jobs but to sock it away on top of the mountains of money they already have invested and bringing in interest.
If you give incentives/breaks/stimulus to the poor and working class, however, they tend to SPEND it and stimulate the economy. Because they NEED to spend it on basic necessities the wealthier already have covered.
I’ve been unemployed for 3 mths now (first time in my life to be unemployed not by choice for longer than a few weeks) and I am planning on returning to school for a while, since the employment prospects are so dismal right now. (me and everyone else, lol)
I am “lucky” in that I am a recent widow and my kids get SS benefits, plus I qualify for unemployment (very little, but something), plus my obligations are pretty low (very reasonable rent, car payment, insurance, plus utilities and not many frills ever). Plus, I am getting back 5 grand or so in taxes this year. (barely squeaked by the earned income tax credit).
But lots I know are hurting as bad or worse. And yes, we DO help one another out, with gifts of food/money/time, etc. I for one do not qualify for food stamps, since so much of my income currently is “unearned” (My late husband’s SS taxes being returned to his family…sorry, but I consider that EARNED, by HIM:rolleyes:) but my sis-in-law has, more than once, allowed me to use their food stamp card to feed us (since they, a family of 4, get over $500 a mth). And I’ve loaned or given her and others, including my mother, $$$$ when I had it to give (so often it seems we go back and forth, making and taking loans from one another depending on who has it and who needs it when, lol)
And I just took her over a pasta salad this afternoon since I had extra and they are flat broke right now.
If people were not helping one another out as much as they are, it would be much more obvious how awful things are right now, imo. That tends to buffer it some.
What our government needs to realize is that this economy, consisitng mostly (over 80%) of consumer spending, operates from the bottom up, not the top down. The Republicans continue their promotion of a top down approach even in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Hopefully Obama’s administration will focus a bit more on a bottom up approach. (yep, give ME some money…I WILL stimulate the economy, I swear! My kids need stuff constantly)
As for can it ever get or is it as bad as back then, I think for many it is as bad. Even back then, most were struggling along and making due but many were on the streets or REALLY hurting otherwise. Same as now. It’s all relative, though.
GE chief warns on US depression threat | Financial Times The head of GE is very worried.
It gets bad until it gets better, which it usually does eventually.
Here’s a list of previous recessions. They typically last 1-3 years in the past century.
Yes, it always gets better eventually. In the meantime, in the midst of these “adjustments”, people and families perish, either literally (lack of health care, homelessness, substance abuse, suicide/murder, malnutrition, etc) or figuratively/financially.
I can’t believe how many I know who are struggling right now. My niece just did my taxes for me (she does it for a living and volunteered to do my pretty complicated return this year for free) and she and her husband came over last night and it turns out he has not worked in over a mth. They are hurting. The subject of selling stuff off came up and I suggested Craigslist and gave her the name of my pawn shop, lol. (she asked) Thank God for my DVD collection…good for $150-200 in a pinch…I’ve pawned it and gotten it back 3 times in the past year.
Others I know are several mths behind on rent and/or utilities and scrambling to find work or enough work to get by, much less say catch up. (I’m a mth behind on 2 utilities, but nothing dire…just paying the past due every mth to stay “on” and they are very accomodating since I have an excellent payment history otherwise)
I really must say I think it will get worse (which is in line with most predictions). Many of those who are now on the edge will go over it before long, defaulting on/losing everything. I honestly anticipate being in the position of providing shelter to a friend/neighbor in the not to distant future.
My grandmother raised 5 kids on her own as a divorced working mother through the depression. (she was an accountant and was fortunate to have a fairly stable, long-term employer) I know that they ate beans and rice many nights and a piece of bread with dinner was a treat. I can identify sometimes lately.
When it is tight, we rely on beans and rice (which fortunately my kids enjoy) and soup (which fortunately I am skilled at, several sorts, and which the kids also enjoy). We have not ever gotten to the point of relying on ramen or other cheap, crap food in stead of fresh veggies and whole grains and other wholesome, homecooked items, but it’s gotten pretty close to the bone.
I agree that many Americans live at a standard far above what they can afford or need, and that is an adjustment which, while painful, is overall beneificial. About TIME our society began considering frugality and thrift and the value of non-material things. But a great many, a majority of us, imo, were already just scraping by and NOT living beyond our means (except to survive at something slightly above 3rd world status by maxing out credit cards and re-mortgaging our homes, etc…)
Overall, I see this as yet another wholesale draining of the wealth from the many to the few (the Republicans didn’t fail in their last 8 yrs, they did exactly what they set out to, imo :mad:)
Yeah, we’ll survive, but I suspect we may have to lower our standards a great deal to do so. Hard, but it might do us good to get a better grip on what life is like for most of the world’s population. Might help us get our priorities in line where they are out of line at present. But those incompotent, corrupt parasites who helped drive us to this point should NOT benefit or be forgiven or forgotten. :mad:
It increases the risk if both incomes are required.
Imagine, for the sake of argument, that the odds that any one person will lose their job is 10%. A one-income family therefore has an 90% chance of keeping their income, and thus keeping their house. A two-income family that requires both incomes to keep their house has a 90% * 90% = 81% chance of both earners keeping their jobs, giving them almost twice the risk of foreclosure that a one-income family has.
Obviously, that’s just a simple example, but having multiple necessary components will absolutely increase the risk of failure, even if the failure rate for any single component is unchanged. On the other hand, a two-income household that is capable of living on one income is in a pretty good spot, since they only have a 10% * 10% = 1% chance that both earners will lose their jobs.
I don’t think we will have a true depression in this country until the US government is unable to find anyone to buy its treasury bonds to subsidize these huge stimulus programs. As long as we are able to do that, we can prevent outright economic disaster in the present on the backs of our children and grandchildren. During the depression, we had no comparable ability to borrow our way out of the crisis- Congress had to pass massive spending cuts, salary cuts for federal workers, etc.