# How bad is the DC Cinematic Universe going to implode? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 1, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593 "2016-05-01T13:40:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/61 "2016-05-03T18:00:07Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > In a practical sense, he could be describing something like the TV show, Spartacus, which was quite popular. People do like a lot of sex and violence, at the end of the day. I like both sex and violence, but that doesn’t mean I like _all_ sex and violence. If an ‘R’ rating and a lack of puritanism is used to better give me what I like, _awesome_, but not simply because it’s not PG. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/62 "2016-05-03T18:47:30Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > (snip) > How big is this debacle going to be? Or is there a way to recover and recreate what Marvel has done - which is clearly what DC wants to do - with their cinematic universe? It’s gonna be bad. Armageddon bad. Didn’t you notice that a [Legendary Movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480249/) had its title on the marquee AFTER Civilization collapsed? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/63 "2016-05-03T18:50:56Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > What I will defend Zach Snyder about is I think I see what he is going for in the DC movies and I like the general idea. He is trying to ask the question of what if these heroes were real? What if there was a guy who could do what Superman can do? Or does what Batman does? How would society react? How would that person react? Those are interesting questions to ask and that tone is the main reason I enjoyed BvS. > > (snip) Shouldn’t that have been the Watchman movie? And that one, IMHO, failed because instead of posing the right question(what if MOVIE superheroes started appearing in real life?) it clung to the original material which asked a different question, for a different time. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/64 "2016-05-03T20:00:25Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Shouldn’t that have been the Watchman movie? And that one, IMHO, failed … Watchmen didnt “fail.” ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/65 "2016-05-03T21:49:39Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You don’t know, from **MoS** , that he really cares about his mother? No, not really. Their interaction is perfunctory and flat. > [@](#): > > You don’t know that he values his privacy (which is why he takes out that satellite when insisting that he’ll be doing this on his own terms), but that he values saving lives more (which is why, over and over, he abandoned his ‘keep a low profile’ ways to save lives, as we saw on that oil rig)? Not really. In fact, he doesn’t seem to keep a low profile at all, which is why Lois Lane tracks him down fairly easily. Also, while he does save people, he gives little-to-no indication that he particularly cares. He also doesn’t seem to have any compunction about killing. He does so frequently and just as frequently puts people in danger, and aside from one moment the death of Zod doesn’t seem to have affected him. > [@](#): > > And that, after he saved lives on the bus, his father advised him in the strongest possible way to help folks only when he can keep people from realizing that Clark Kent has godlike powers? Yes, I know what Jonathan Kent thinks, despite the fact that he changes it a few times. No idea what Clark Kent thinking about it, or anything else. > [@](#): > > And that’s why he wants to get a job where no one looks twice if he’s in dangerous places while asking questions, the better to learn where he can help people next? No, not really. I could guess, but he shows no real indication that this was his reasoning, nor that he had any interest in reporting. > [@](#): > > And that he grew up knowing that making himself known to the public would change the world for better or for worse, and that he put off that responsibility by helping in secret until he had to openly save his adopted world from genocide? No, that’s what Pa kent told him. Clark never seems to particularly care. > [@](#): > > And that he’s also quite taken with Lois Lane? No, not really. He seems more annoyed with her than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/66 "2016-05-03T22:40:44Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > No, not really. Their interaction is perfunctory and flat. Well, her interaction with him when he’s a little kid overwhelmed by his super-senses seemed pretty emotional. And, years later, he speaks pretty positively about her helping him through it – shortly after he loudly talks about her while plowing into someone who thought it was a good idea to threaten her. I’m not sure I could say _I don’t know if he really cares about her._ > [@](#): > > Not really. In fact, he doesn’t seem to keep a low profile at all, which is why Lois Lane tracks him down fairly easily. Well, you’ll at least give him credit for moving on from whatever life he’s been leading every time he uses his powers, right? That said, _Lois_ doesn’t seem to think it was fairly easy to track him down; she specifically mentions that he’d covered his tracks, before explanning that she’d had to work her way through friend-of-a-friend claims about a cipher who never quite fit in. And, again, he eventually decides to help people as Superman, but makes a big deal about keeping his identity secret – to the point of roughing up that surveillance stuff, because On My Own Terms means Privacy; it matters to him; he’s _explicit_. > [@](#): > > Also, while he does save people, he gives little-to-no indication that he particularly cares. Well, look, you can of course fault Cavill’s _acting_ – but so long as the character keeps talking about wanting to save people, and keeps doing stuff consistent with that, then we’re basically getting spoon-fed explanation, yeah? I mean, he keeps winding up in situations where he can save lives, and he keeps saving lives, even though he then has to take steps to cover his tracks, which he then does, as per his conversations with Jon Kent, which he expressly references. > [@](#): > > He also doesn’t seem to have any compunction about killing. He does so frequently and just as frequently puts people in danger, and aside from one moment the death of Zod doesn’t seem to have affected him. I admittedly could’ve missed that. Who else does he kill? > [@](#): > > Yes, I know what Jonathan Kent thinks, despite the fact that he changes it a few times. No idea what Clark Kent thinking about it, or anything else. Sure you do. Before dying, Jon Kent told his son a bunch of stuff about what would happen if the general public became aware of an alien with godlike powers living among them. His son then (a) spent rather a lot of time keeping a low profile instead of letting the general public known that Clark Kent is an alien with godlike powers, and then (b) had a conversation with Lois about what Jon said regarding people freaking out if they ever learned the truth. > [@](#): > > No, not really. I could guess, but he shows no real indication that this was his reasoning, nor that he had any interest in reporting. No, that stuff I wrote isn’t guesswork; it’s what Clark flatly said. I’m not asking you to connect the dots on that one; it’s just one dot, right there, by itself. > [@](#): > > No, that’s what Pa kent told him. Clark never seems to particularly care. Well, yes, it’s what Pa Kent told him. And it’s also what Clark then _did_. I’ll grant that, for once, yes, that’s two dots we need to connect, but, c’mon: if Clark didn’t care, then why the heck _else_ did he live the way he did, while expressly mentioning what Jon had said about living that way? Jon said it; Clark did it. (Good heavens, I sound like a bumper sticker.) Clark then talked about what Jon had said, after spending years acting exactly as if he’d taken it to heart. That’s – not much of a mystery, y’know? If I see a movie where some mugger guns down the Waynes in a Gotham City alley by some mugger, and their son then (a) dresses like Dracula when beating the hell out of muggers in Gotham City’s alleys, and (b) mentions swearing an oath to wage war on crime because of said parents getting gunned down by said mugger in said alley, don’t the dots pretty much connect themselves? > [@](#): > > No, not really. He seems more annoyed with her than anything else. What? Like I was just saying, he tells her all about Jon Kent’s belief that people would freak out in fear upon learning the truth about him; she – doesn’t freak out, and doesn’t fear him, but instead just treats him like a good-looking guy who healed her injuries, and he kisses her because she’s Amy Adams and he’s heterosexual. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/67 "2016-05-03T23:53:09Z")
We should probably not have this argument in this thread, lest we destroy it as thoroughly as Superman and Zod wrecked Metropolis. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/68 "2016-05-04T00:01:18Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > We should probably not have this argument in this thread, lest we destroy it as thoroughly as Superman and Zod wrecked Metropolis. THERE’S ONLY ONE WAY THIS ENDS, BANDIT: that one, the one you, uh, just said. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/69 "2016-05-04T00:16:50Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > I’m interested to see whether _Watchmen,_ _BvS_, and _Deadpool_ herald a “dark age” of superhero movies, the same way Alan Moore, Frank Miller, and Rob Liefeld paved the way for a “dark age” of comics in the 90’s. Rob Liefeld… “dark age”… wha? Was that supposed to be a “name three examples but make sure the third one is bizarrely inaccurate” trope? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/70 "2016-05-04T00:26:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Watchmen didnt “fail.” It’s neither a good adaptation of the comics, what with unnecessarily changing many things and weakening the story and meaning, nor an interesting film in its own right. I’m not sure how that isn’t an utter failure. As for the DC cinematic universe, it shows all signs of crashing and burning, at least in terms of making good films. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/71 "2016-05-04T01:11:42Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s neither a good adaptation of the comics, what with unnecessarily changing many things and weakening the story and meaning, nor an interesting film in its own right. I’m not sure how that isn’t an utter failure. Well Moore hates all of his movies (but loves the money). But it was a box office success, won some awards and did OK with the critics. \*You \*seem to not like it, but that’s not a measure of success. Dude: _“Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/72 "2016-05-04T01:14:02Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Rob Liefeld… “dark age”… wha? > > Was that supposed to be a “name three examples but make sure the third one is bizarrely inaccurate” trope? Thank you for posting this. I thought I was the outlier. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/73 "2016-05-04T01:21:24Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Rob Liefeld… “dark age”… wha? > > Was that supposed to be a “name three examples but make sure the third one is bizarrely inaccurate” trope? There’s a very strong argument to be made that Liefeld is responsible for a dark age in comics, but I don’t think that’s the sense **Chihuahua** meant it in. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/74 "2016-05-04T01:23:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well Moore hates all of his movies (but loves the money). But it was a box office success, $185 million on a $130 million budget? That’s – not great; Norton’s outing as the Hulk did better than that; _Bana’s_ outing as the Hulk did better than that. Clooney’s outing as Batman did better than that, even. None of 'em doubled their budgets, of course; but they all outperformed WATCHMEN, despite all being disappointments. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/75 "2016-05-04T02:18:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > $185 million on a $130 million budget? That’s – not great; Norton’s outing as the Hulk did better than that; _Bana’s_ outing as the Hulk did better than that. Clooney’s outing as Batman did better than that, even. None of 'em doubled their budgets, of course; but they all outperformed WATCHMEN, despite all being disappointments. But it’s by no means a failure. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/76 "2016-05-04T02:31:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But it’s by no means a failure. In Hollywood, it probably was. You have to consider the capital outlay and the opportunity cost. That said, I liked the film for what it was and consider it fairly strong. The narrative of _Watchmen_ had the advantage of adapting a work that was itself broken into many smaller portions, so at least that never felt out of place. (To note, I haven’t read the whole of the comic, and I do know there are significant differences.) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/77 "2016-05-04T12:29:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well Moore hates all of his movies (but loves the money). Moore doesn’t accept money for films that are adapted from his works–he usually gives his share to co-creators. [Cite, with tons of links to other articles stating the same thing](http://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/24071/why-is-alan-moores-name-not-shown-on-the-watchmen-credits). As a matter of fact, he’s pretty famous for not accepting money for his films. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/78 "2016-05-04T12:35:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But it’s by no means a failure. It’s my understanding that the $130 million was just the cost of _making_ the movie: sets, props, costumes, actors’ salaries, a special-effects budget sufficient to do everything associated with Doctor Manhattan, and so on; and that _marketing_ the movie is some additional amount of money that doesn’t get accounted for in that figure. It’s not like hiring a bunch of stuntmen or paying to blow up some cars; it’s a completely separate amount. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/79 "2016-05-04T13:11:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I would dispute his ability to create interesting visuals. That ability seems limited to painting everything black. Oh, the color palette sucks, but as much as I hate the man who said that directors like him existed to save us from directors like Terry Gilliam, I have to give him credit for being a creative visual thinker. Sucker Punch is a beautiful movie. Man of Steel had the best depiction of superspeed and superstrength combat I’ve ever seen in live-action. He just writes characters as if he were an angry ten year old. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593/80 "2016-05-04T16:36:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Watchmen didnt “fail.” Did you miss the part where I said > [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Shouldn’t that have been the Watchman movie? And that one, **IMHO** , failed … ? Or am I not entitled to my own, honest opinion, because I’m in the wrong forum? :p;) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-is-the-dc-cinematic-universe-going-to-implode/753593.md?page=5)