# How bad was the Fukushima disaster? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 2, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518 "2012-02-02T06:28:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/21 "2012-02-03T01:11:36Z")
Gods, don’t remind us! _shudder_ -XT ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/22 "2012-02-03T01:13:49Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > As a matter of fact, it had (in part): reactor 1 was to be retired on March 26 2011, only three weeks after the accident. See, the problem was that Fukushima showed another reactor a photo of it’s baby girl that it had in it’s wallet… ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/23 "2012-02-03T02:03:46Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I believe it was originally to retire in March '11, but had just recently had its license extended to continue operating. Reactor #1 became operational on March 26 1971, and Japanese regulations set the lifetime of nuclear reactors at a maximum of 40 years, so until February 2011, reactor #1 was indeed supposed to be retired on March 26 2011. However, it’s true that a plan to extend its life for another 10 years had just been made public. > **[Japan Extended Reactor’s Life, Despite Warning (Published 2011)](https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/asia/22nuclear.html?_r=2&hp)** > > Regulators approved a 10-year extension for the oldest reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant despite safety warnings. The point is that the reactor really had reached the end of its originally-planned life. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/24 "2012-02-03T02:39:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Fukushima disaster was an earthquake and tsunami. The tsunami was caused by the earthquake, and neither was caused in any way by nuclear power. The fact that one of the structures severely damaged by the disaster was a nuclear power plant is no more relevant than any of the other structures damaged. If it is irrelevant, then why are you and others posting about it? What do you mean by relevant here? There was an earthquake and tsunami on the east coast of Japan. Fukushima was only a small part of that, and the sequelae of the general e and t caused a third disaster at the nuclear power plant, which is what people refer to by “Fukushima”. This thread hasn’t yet pointed out that the 250,000 people rendered homeless is the harm of socialism: spreading the cost of the disaster on home dwellers and letting the profit takers skate. Let’s figure out how many acres of private land are now unusable for how long a period of time in adding up the cost. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/25 "2012-02-03T03:01:48Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > This thread hasn’t yet pointed out that the 250,000 people rendered homeless is the harm of socialism: spreading the cost of the disaster on home dwellers and letting the profit takers skate. Let’s figure out how many acres of private land are now unusable for how long a period of time in adding up the cost. 250,000 homeless is from the Tsunami, NOT from Fukushima. I don’t think you can blame “socialism” for the tsunami. And the government is going pretty hard on TEPCO, they got a massive fine and are paying all sorts of cleanup costs, don’t see any problem with “socialism” there either. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/26 "2012-02-03T03:14:27Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > This thread hasn’t yet pointed out that the 250,000 people rendered homeless is the harm of socialism: spreading the cost of the disaster on home dwellers and letting the profit takers skate. Let’s figure out how many acres of private land are now unusable for how long a period of time in adding up the cost. That’s hugely more characteristic of unrestrained “privatise the profits and socialise the losses” capitalism. How you manage to blame it on socialism, in Japan of all places, is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/27 "2012-02-03T03:26:21Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > And the government is going pretty hard on TEPCO, they got a massive fine and are paying all sorts of cleanup costs, don’t see any problem with “socialism” there either. Are they paying the fine with the [$13 billion government bailout](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/26/us-tepco-idUSTRE80P04B20120126) they’re getting? Ow, that must sting. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/28 "2012-02-03T03:40:41Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Are they paying the fine with the [$13 billion government bailout](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/26/us-tepco-idUSTRE80P04B20120126) they’re getting? Ow, that must sting. On one of political tv shows here, two former high ranking bureaucrats turned to the light side went through several different scenarios of how the government and TEPCO might end up dealing with the mess. They had a really complicated chart up, but all the threads connected to the same conclusion: regular folks get to foot the bill. Either through the government, or through electricity bills (directly and indirectly). ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/29 "2012-02-03T03:46:42Z")
Reactors are designed and built by engineers, not scientists. I think the main lessons are: 1. Don’t put your cooling pools on the roof. 2. Have a completely independent source of backup power. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/30 "2012-02-03T03:57:25Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > On one of political tv shows here, two former high ranking bureaucrats turned to the light side went through several different scenarios of how the government and TEPCO might end up dealing with the mess. They had a really complicated chart up, but all the threads connected to the same conclusion: regular folks get to foot the bill. Either through the government, or through electricity bills (directly and indirectly). Yeah, I get a kick out of the article when it says TEPCO will have to pay back some of its loans with its profits, and its profits are going to come from turning their nuclear power plants back on and raising rates 10%. ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/31 "2012-02-03T04:06:34Z")
Farmland has been rendered unuseable within 20km of the plant, with spotty outliers from airborne Cs137 contamination extending another 20km or so. Unfortunately, some contaminated food is still getting to market. A lot of radioactive runoff to the sea, but I’m not up on what restrictions there are on fishing or use of seafood from the area. I still favor the use of nuclear power, but no matter how hard you try, something, somewhere, sometime, will go very wrong. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/32 "2012-02-03T04:59:57Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > Farmland has been rendered unuseable within 20km of the plant, with spotty outliers from airborne Cs137 contamination extending another 20km or so. Unfortunately, some contaminated food is still getting to market. A lot of radioactive runoff to the sea, but I’m not up on what restrictions there are on fishing or use of seafood from the area. I still favor the use of nuclear power, but no matter how hard you try, something, somewhere, sometime, will go very wrong. Here’s a recent map of the pollution pattern: [![](http://blog-imgs-26-origin.fc2.com/k/i/p/kipuka/09decJG.jpg) ](http://blog-imgs-26-origin.fc2.com/k/i/p/kipuka/09decJG.jpg) It’s not as easy as saying “20km from the site”, as the shape of the affected zone is elongated. Fukushima Prefecture is monitoring cesium levels and keeps a list of products that producers should refrain from taking to the market. The latest list is here: [http://wwwcms.pref.fukushima.jp/download/1/subject.pdf](http://wwwcms.pref.fukushima.jp/download/1/subject.pdf) A number of fish are still listed. This is less an issue now, but some hay that had been left to dry and was sprinkled with radio-isotopes ended up all over the country, causing a bit of a scare as beef produced far from the accident ended up getting polluted, so the problems certainly aren’t confined to Fukushima. Somewhat relevent: [map of Cs137 in soil](http://www.pnas.org/content/108/49/19530/F3.large.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/33 "2012-02-03T05:07:18Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Are they paying the fine with the [$13 billion government bailout](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/26/us-tepco-idUSTRE80P04B20120126) they’re getting? Ow, that must sting. Letting TEPCO go bankrupt would potentially leave most of northern Japan with no electricity. Not really an option. TEPCO could face ¥2 trillion ($23.6 billion) in special losses in the current business year to March 2012,[3] and Japan plans to put TEPCO under effective state control as a guarantee for compensation payments to people affected by radiation.[4] The Fukushima disaster displaced 50,000 households in the evacuation zone because of radiation leaks into the air, soil and sea. IMO, the disaster was caused by insufficient government supervision of safety standards, the solution is higher supervision of safety procedures for Nuclear plants. Eg more socialism. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/34 "2012-02-03T05:30:05Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > IMO, the disaster was caused by insufficient government supervision of safety standards, the solution is higher supervision of safety procedures for Nuclear plants. Eg more socialism. Which was itself caused by crony capitalism: bureaucrats and politicians are in the pocket of TEPCO, who is, even still, in a position to exert considerable influence. The situation is a result of taking the worst of capitalism and the worst of socialism and blending them in a toxic mix of power and greed. Solutions to the problem actually are actually on both side of the spectrum. On one hand, better and more neutral oversight is certainly needed. On the other hand, deregulating so that other companies can send electricity on the grid would go a long way in breaking TEPCO’s clout. Once companies operating power plants for their own needs are able to sell their surplus electricity, we’ll get a much more healthy market. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/35 "2012-02-03T05:31:37Z")
[http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-25/asia/world\_asia\_japan-exclusion-zone\_1\_exclusion-zone-fukushima-daiichi-nuclear-plant-radiation?\_s=PM:ASIA](http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-25/asia/world_asia_japan-exclusion-zone_1_exclusion-zone-fukushima-daiichi-nuclear-plant-radiation?_s=PM:ASIA) About 78,000 people according to CNN. But they are really ignoring similar dangers to people further away. > **[Radiation effects from the Fukushima nuclear accident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_effects_from_Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster)** > > The radiation effects from the Fukushima nuclear accident are the observed and predicted effects as a result of the release of radioactive isotopes from the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant following the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami. The release of radioactive isotopes from reactor containment vessels was a result of venting in order to reduce gaseous pressure, and the discharge of coolant water into the sea. This resulted in Japanese authorities implementing a 30 km exclusion Prelim... > [@](#): > > Up to 307,000 becquerels of cesium per kilogram of soil was detected during a survey held in Fukushima City, 60 kilometers away from the crippled reactors on 14 Sept 2011. This was triple the amount for contaminated soil that by Japanese governmental orders should be sealed into concrete. According to “Citizens Against Fukushima Aging Nuclear Power Plants”, these readings were comparable to the high levels in special regulated zones where evacuation was required after the Chernobyl accident. They urged the government to designate the area as a hot spot, where residents would need to voluntarily evacuate and be eligible for state assistance. Professor Tomoya Yamauchi of the University of Kobe, in charge of the study, in which soil samples were tested from five locations around the district, noted that the decontamination conducted in some of the areas tested has not yet reduced the radiation to pre-accident levels.[183] > > On 18 October 2011 a hot-spot on a public square was found in the city of Kashiwa, Chiba in the Nedokoyadai district, by a resident walking with a dosimeter. He informed the city-counsel, their first readings went off scale, their Geiger-counter could only measure up to 10 micro-Sieverts per hour. Later measurements by the Chiba environment foundation gave a final result of 57.5 micro-Sieverts per hour. On 21 October the roads around the place were sealed off, and the place was covered with sandbags three meters around. Further investigations and check-ups were planned on 24 October 2011.[184] These investigations showed on 23 October levels up to 276,000 becquerels radioactive cesium per kilogram soil, 30 centimeters below the surface. The first comments of town-officials on the find of 57.7 micro-Sieverts per hour were: that there could not be a link with the Fukushima disaster, but after the find of this large amount of cesium, officials of the science ministry could not deny the possibility that the cause could be found at the Fukushima-site.[185] > > In October 2011, radiation levels as high as those in the evacuation zone around Japan’s Fukushima nuclear plant have been detected in a Tokyo suburb. Japanese officials said the contamination was linked to the Fukushima nuclear disaster. Millions of people live within these non-evacuated but unsafe areas. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/36 "2012-02-03T05:37:10Z")
some buildings that were constructed to house displaced persons were found to be radioactive. materials from quarries that were contaminated were used in their construction. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/37 "2012-02-03T14:56:05Z")
> [@](#): > > The first comments of town-officials on the find of 57.7 micro-Sieverts per hour were: that there could not be a link with the Fukushima disaster, Umm… they were hoping that there was **some other** source of radioactive contamination? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/38 "2012-02-03T19:32:15Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > That’s hugely more characteristic of unrestrained “privatise the profits and socialise the losses” capitalism. How you manage to blame it on socialism, in Japan of all places, is beyond me. I was taking a sarcastic swipe at the modern forms of capitalism and conservatism that attack any program that might incidentally benefit those who need it as “socialism” while shifting all of the costs of the negative side of capitalism onto those who can least afford it and suffer most from that lack of putting the costs into the calculation of the profit making activity. I’m an anti-socialist in the sense that as a general policy it should be a last choice solution, but I do not object to a government program that happens to have some socialist features while getting a government function done. I am a capitalist, except when it comes to a false capitalism that spreads the costs to people who do not share the profits. The 78,000 people made homeless from the radiation in the official exclusion zone are victims of the most evil kind of economic socialism. Their land and their homes were instantly seized from them by people far too arrogant to understand or care that they put countless people in danger for their own personal profit. At least armed bank robbers know that they are endangering innocents. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518/39 "2012-02-03T22:41:31Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Umm… they were hoping that there was **some other** source of radioactive contamination? 😃 Yes. One of the unintended effects of the relatively large number of people walking around with geiger counters and scintillators now is that previously unknown contaminated spots were found. There was an old house in Tokyo that spiked the counters. It turned out that there was a stash of radium under the floor. No one knows how it got there, but it had to be used to make radium paint back in the old days. There are of course also sources of natural radioactivity. You can’t simply assume that a hot spot comes from Fukushima unless it has the right isotopes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-bad-was-the-fukushima-disaster/611518.md?page=1)