I work in a nest of Trumpers, and I have never once heard any of them directly address his constant lying (likewise for pretty much anything that might suggest negativity about our beloved Resident). It’s a subject that simply isn’t spoken of, and they will go to any lengths to avoid discussing it. I have to assume that at least some of them recognize the cognitive dissonance, but I have yet to see any suggestion that there’s a limit to what they might swallow as long as it might help get him re-elected.
The defense for lying I hear now from Trumpers is “They all do it.” If they can find even one instance of Biden exaggerating or misstating something, somehow that negates the 50 lies a day that Trump spouts.
For Trump, no, of course not, because Trump is an actual existential threat.
For a normal Republican president, of course. Because I’m not a die-hard party loyalist, so I know that if Biden goes off the deep end I’d have to try to defeat him.
Powers &8^]
What might that look like?
I’m reluctant to speculate. It’s kinda unseemly, since I believe Biden is probably in the upper quintile among politicians in terms of integrity. I also wouldn’t want to inadvertently provide any ammunition to his enemies.
Powers &8^]
That’s sort of my point. A lot of people ARE die-hard party loyalists, R or D.
That may be, but you suggested that anyone who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 would be just as unlikely to vote against Biden as the die-hard Trump voters. If that wasn’t what you meant, I apologize.
(Though to be honest I actually voted for Jill Stein in 2012, much to my regret now. So I may not be among those whom you were addressing anyway.)
Powers &8^]
It’s not a binary issue. It’s not like Trump will either be believed or disbelieved. People are going to have various responses to a lie. And the size of the lie will change the percentages.
How much difference is there between a lie that 49% of people believe and 51% don’t and a lie that 51% of people believe and 49% don’t? It doesn’t feel like we’re crossing a major line there.
What’s even worse is we’re hearing it from anti-Trumpers as well. Their version is “There’s no difference between Trump and Biden. They’re both mainstream politicians who won’t make any real changes.”
Worst of all is when they follow it with “We’re probably better off with Trump. At least he shows the true face of the system. If he gets re-elected, the proletariat masses will finally rise up and throw off their chains!”
Poor wording on my part. That’s why I like to stick to generalizations instead of specific examples. My general point was that people that aren’t in the middle of the political spectrum aren’t likely to cross the aisle. That is, a life time, die hard republican isn’t going to vote D for just about any reason. I’ve had far right friends, during the 2016 election say they were going to sit out or vote Libertarian (Gary Johnson) but there was no way they were going to vote for Hillary*. It would surprise me if a many of those same republicans would vote for Trump again even if he said he was going to ban civilians from having firearms or make abortions free for anyone, of any age, for any reason at all. In fact, I’d bet saying he was going to implement universal heath care, on par with many European countries would be one of the few things that would drive away more votes than repealing 2A or announcing he’s pro-choice.
*That was the plan, until his wife brought up the point that we’re essentially a two-party country and if he doesn’t want Hillary to win, he has to vote Trump. Johnson would be a waste of a vote.
I think this part of the OP we can answer pretty definitively.
Because there have been numerous examples of Trump lies so obviously false that nobody could claim they were true in an interview.
Instead there is something like a “stages of denial” that plays out:
- Subtly endorse what Trump said but without actually saying so explicitly. So you don’t say his allegation against BLM is true, just that it’s “troubling” and needs to be investigated.
- Deflect to some rant about the Dems or MSM
- Deny Trump said it. Even when presented with video of him saying it, just say “I think what the president is saying is…”
Don’t forget
4. Sorry, I don’t know anything about that. I was on the dark side of the planet Zephron and there was no cell service, internet, printed materials, TV, or daylight.
And there’s the classic
- The President was making a joke. You just don’t get his refined sense of humor.
As somebody already said above, the most effective rejoinder is the dismissive
7. They all do it.
That means 100% of Trump’s lies are 100% fully excusable. More than that, it means we (i.e. Trumpists) don’t even have a reason to question whether any given statement is or is not a lie.
Given how full RW media is of chanting about LW lies, many (not all) fabricated, it’s hardly surprising this attitude has taken hold among RW media consumers.
It’s so Russian in character I almost think we should rename “right wing media” to “Russian wing media”