# How big a part of the Tea Party movement are Libertarians vs Conservatives? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438 "2011-03-21T04:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/1 "2011-03-21T04:31:07Z")
I was reading the [Tea Party movement - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement) and contrary to my expectations there’s only some glancing mentions of Libertarian involvement in the Tea Party movement. Is this because the overall number of Libertarians is minuscule relative to religious, hard right conservatives or have Libertarian influence and involvement in the Tea Party movement been overstated? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/2 "2011-03-21T04:47:43Z")
I seriously doubt a Tea Partier knows the difference or cares. For my part I would call them conservatives and not Libertarians. Libertarians will support something like allowing people to smoke pot (government should stay out of it). Libertarians would say religion has no place in government. A Libertarian would support gay marriage. Most Tea Partiers wont support that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/3 "2011-03-21T04:56:54Z")
From what I’ve seen and heard from avowed Tea Partiers, there is something of a schism beyween social conservatives (which are the majority) and a minority of libertarian, more generally anti-government types. The social conservatives don’t see the social issues as negotiable, so they’re making the Tea Party somewhat unpalatable to civil libertarians (that along with the more crazed birther/secret Muslim stuff). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/4 "2011-03-21T05:34:24Z")
I thought the _biggest_ part of the Tea Party movement was the “Hey, looka me! I’m fighting the system to save America! WOOOOOO!” aspect. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/5 "2011-03-21T05:42:26Z")
I think cultural warriors is a better term for them than social conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/6 "2011-03-21T16:37:29Z")
It has been overstated because although the Tea Party is libertarian in its goals, there are not enough libertarians in this country to sustain a mass movement. Thus those of us in the religous right predominate because our numbers are enough to have a populist movement. The libertarian part of the coalition is growing though and is more important than ever before. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/7 "2011-03-21T16:52:52Z")
The Tea Parties and the Republicans who have co-opted them are not (entirely) the same thing. The problem is not that there aren’t any libertarians; it’s that there aren’t any credible libertarian _leaders_. The poster child for libertarian political candidates is Ron Paul. Ron Paul is a hardcore social conservative who opposes free trade. The only things that set him apart from mainstream Republicans are his crazy monetary ideas, and his opposition to federal regulation of marijuana. That really sums up the state of libertarianism; they’re Republicans who don’t mind weed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/8 "2011-03-21T19:32:40Z")
LINO’s. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/9 "2011-03-22T00:28:10Z")
I think the “libertarian” strain is fairly large in the tea party, but not by that label. If you consider libertarian to generally mean socially liberal, fiscally onservative, and small-government oriented, my guess would be that about 20-30% of tea partiers roughly land in that category. Another 30-40% are traditional republicans, and the rest are all over map. Hard-core social conservatives probably make up 20%, as a guess. But these numbers are pretty malleable. Right now, the ‘libertarian’ side is probably over-represented beause of the fiscal challenges and huge deficits. If a Republican becomes president, I think you’ll see the libertarians become somewhat disillusioned and the social conservatives will start throwing their weight around. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/10 "2011-03-22T00:32:04Z")
I think there is a strong strain of social conservatism in the TP, and I think that a lot of what passes for “libertarianism” is really just “socially conservative constitutionalism”. I’ve yet to see any socially liberal TPers. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/11 "2011-03-22T05:32:11Z")
Here are some Tea Party leaders with socially liberal views: [Tea Party Leaders Release Letter Urging House and Senate GOP to Avoid Social Issues](http://www.goproud.org/tea-party-leaders-release-letter-urging-house-and-senate-gop-to-avoid-social-issues/) From the letter: > [@](#): > > The Tea Party movement is a non-partisan movement, focused on issues of economic freedom and limited government, and a movement that will be as vigilant with a Republican-controlled Congress as we were with a Democratic-controlled Congress. > > This election was not a mandate for the Republican Party, nor was it a mandate to act on any social issue, nor should it be interpreted as a political blank check. > > Already, there are Washington insiders and special interest groups that hope to co-opt the Tea Party’s message and use it to push their own agenda – particularly as it relates to social issues. We are disappointed but not surprised by this development. We recognize the importance of values but believe strongly that those values should be taught by families and our houses of worship and not legislated from Washington, D.C. > > We urge you to stay focused on the issues that got you and your colleagues elected and to resist the urge to run down any social issue rabbit holes in order to appease the special interests. > > The Tea Party movement is not going away and we intend to continue to hold Washington accountable. > > Sincerely, > Christopher R Barron > Chairman of the Board, GOProud > Andrew Ian Dodge > Coordinator, Maine Tea Party Patriots > Pam Stevenson > Coordinator, Arizona Tea Party Patriots > Dianna Greenwood > Executive Director, New American Patriots (Ashland, OH) > Jim Mason II > Chairman and State Coordinator, Nebraska’s Tea Party Patriots > Ralph King > Co-coordinator Cleveland Tea Party Patriots > Co-coordinator State of Ohio Tea Party Patriots > Jack Lien > Coordinator, Tea Party Patriots of Great Malls (Montana) > Tammy Bruce > National Radio Talk Show Host > JP Weber > Coordinator, Annapolis (Maryland) Tea Party > Doug Welch, > Blogger and member Southern Illinois Tea Party > Bruce Carroll > Conservative Activist and Blogger > Pam Stout > Coordinator, Sandpoint Idaho Tea Party Patriots > Dan Blatt > Conservative Activist and Blogger > Everett Wilkinson > Coordinator, Florida Tea Party > Jimmy LaSalvia > Executive Director, GOProud > Paul Crockett > President Santa Clara (California) Tea Party > David Thor Andreasen > Cumberland County (Maine) Tea Party Here’s a Politico poll from April of last year. It was an exit poll conducted with participants at the Washington DC Tax Day Tea Party rally: [Tea Party Exit Poll Findings](http://www.targetpointconsulting.com/system/uploads/22/original/POLITICO-TargetPoint_Tea_Party_Exit_Poll_Findings.pdf?1271686652) Specifically on social issues, 51% of self-described members of the Tea Party said that the government should not promote any particular values - 43% said that the government should promote typical family values. > [@](#): > > Indeed, combining the responses to some of these questions is a revealing ideological exercise: 43% of attendees said government is doing too much AND that government should promote traditional values, a distinctly conservative view; 42% said government is doing too much AND that government should NOT promote any particular set of values, an ideological view used by the Cato Institute as an indicator of libertarianism (currently 23% of all Americans fit into this category). Split right down the middle. All of them are fiscal conservatives, while half are social conservatives and the other half are social liberals. > [@](#): > > This split between a libertarian Tea Party and a socially conservative Tea Party is reinforced when we consider the combination of all three ideological questions we asked, questions on the size and role of government, the role of traditional values, and the dynamic between taxes and spending. If we count the number of times a respondent gave the “conservative” answer (government should do less, it should promote traditional values, and cut taxes and spending), 40% of Tea Party attendees gave the conservative answer all three times, and 42% gave the conservative answer only two times. Those that gave only two conservative responses were most likely to defect on the role of traditional values. The pollsters concluded: “the Tea Party is actually more conservative than national Republicans when it comes to the size and role of government, but less conservative than national Republicans in terms of government promotion of traditional values.” From a [Nationwide CBS Poll](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002529-503544.html) conducted around the same time: > [@](#): > > Tea Party supporters are more concerned with economic than social issues. Seventy-eight percent say economic issues are a bigger concern, while 14 percent point to social issues. > … > Fifty-three percent say the Roe v. Wade decision was a bad thing (compared to 34 percent of Americans overall), 40 percent oppose same-sex marriage and civil unions (compared to 30 percent overall) On the two ‘hot button’ issues of same sex marriage and abortion, Tea Partiers are only slightly more conservative than the public as a whole (which means they’re more socially liberal than Republicans). I’d also argue that the Roe V. Wade question is loaded: Lots of people who support a woman’s right to choose think Roe v Wade was a bad legal decision. I’d like to see a more pointed question directly asking if the government should prevent a woman from having an abortion. There is no doubt that there are social conservatives in the tea party movement. But there is a large strain of social liberalism in the tea party - more so than in the Republican party. I’d say if you compared the Tea Party against Republicans in general, you’d find that they are: - More fiscally conservative - Less socially conservative - More populist - more libertarian - less corporatist You won’t find many Rockefeller Republicans in the Tea Party, and the social conservatives will face a hell of a fight from within if they try to redirect the energy of the tea party into social issues. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/12 "2011-03-22T07:54:20Z")
The sole fact of any relevance is the Tea Party will cease to exist, instantaneously, if and when a GOP administration is elected. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/13 "2011-03-22T08:08:43Z")
As many as twenty-five million Americans are out of work and facing long term unemployment because most employers refuse to hire anyone who does not already have a job. I see the Tea Party people as those who have jobs or reasonably comfortable retirements. They realize that any serious effort to help the unemployed will require substantial tax increases. They do not want to pay for those increases. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/14 "2011-03-22T14:06:17Z")
I’m finding them hard to re-locate, but I know I’ve seen polling and analysis that shows _huge_ areas of both membership and ideological alignment between standard Republicans and Tea Partiers. On the order of mid-80% overlaps in many (most?) areas. However, I also think that some of that – how much, I don’t know – is simply a result of co-opting by outside operatives, obscuring (if not watering down) the differences. And the differences _do_ exist, I think…supported by polls such as [Poll: Tea Party, Non-Tea Party Republicans Far Apart on Funding Issues](http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02/11/poll-tea-party-non-tea-party-republicans-far-apart-on-funding/). The graphic in that article is excellent, presenting Republican, Tea Party, and Democrat views on a few selected issues. Republicans end up closer to Democrats on some issues than they do to Tea Partiers. That article is based on an analysis from Pew Research from Feb 2-7, 2011, which I’ve seen used in other places also. As I recall it, the Pew analysis combines other polling data and is the most recent available right now. Just thought I’d mention that 'cuz I’m too lazy to go find and link to the original. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/15 "2011-03-22T14:19:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > On the two ‘hot button’ issues of same sex marriage and abortion, Tea Partiers are only slightly more conservative than the public as a whole (which means they’re more socially liberal than Republicans). Re abortion, 17% is a pretty big slight by anyone’s measure. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/16 "2011-03-22T16:08:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Split right down the middle. All of them are fiscal conservatives, while half are social conservatives and the other half are social liberals. It does not really matter though. Tea Partiers strongly favor republican candidates. > [@](#): > > While Tea Party supporters are not universal in their backing of Republican candidates, they skew heavily in that direction. About 80% of Tea Party supporters say they will vote for the Republican candidate in their district, slightly lower than the projected 95% Republican vote among conservative Republicans. > > SOURCE: [Tea Party Supporters Overlap Republican Base](http://www.gallup.com/poll/141098/tea-party-supporters-overlap-republican-base.aspx) So, if you are a Republican there is no need to pander to socially liberal feelings of Tea Partiers. Indeed, they want both the social and fiscal conservatives so will move further right. The following, then, is what we have to look forward to from the right: > [@](#): > > **Anti-gay, anti-choice Christians to dominate Iowa caucuses** > > Republican presidential candidates take note: the clout of far-right, evangelical conservatives is growing in politically crucial Iowa. And these activists are driving the debate here toward cultural issues – and away from the economy – just as the GOP sets out to find an opponent for President Barack Obama. > > SOURCE: [http://www.wisconsingazette.com/breaking-news/anti-gay-anti-choice-christians-to-dominate-iowa-caucuses.html](http://www.wisconsingazette.com/breaking-news/anti-gay-anti-choice-christians-to-dominate-iowa-caucuses.html) ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-big-a-part-of-the-tea-party-movement-are-libertarians-vs-conservatives/575438/17 "2011-03-25T19:30:20Z")
Yesterday, Alex Pareene at [salon.com](http://salon.com) published an article: [The Tea Party candidate is…Mitt Romney](http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/03/24/mitt_romney_poll). That’s according to a Pew Research poll (published just a few days ago, 3/23/2011, polling conducted between 3/8-3/14). Of the listed potential candidates, Romney is – perhaps with the exception of Tim Pawlenty – the most generic Republican under consideration. Placing second in the poll is Huckabee, whom I would consider a social conservative, and thus very much **not** specifically Tea Party oriented. The point being that, no…there’s essentially no difference between a Tea Partier and a standard Republican, at least as concerns voting for President.